Cutting Horse Futurity Age

I do make a living from livestock. My husband put himself through college riding bulls, he studied aniaml science and animal husbandry & livestock technology. After school he became a cutting horse trainer.
I have ridden most all my life and have been in cutting for almost 20 years. I do know very well what goes on and how we make our living.  We no longer train for the public.
 
As for the horse slaughter, I am not opposed to someone else that will eat horse meat or dog. People have all different culture beliefs. I do not intend to try & change that. But had we taken care of those slaughter horses humanely, PETA could not have been able to shut it down. The proof they came up with was absolutely disgusting. Horses w/foals, down in trailers, sick, visibly broken bones, torn flesh, you name it.
I have never seen cattle hauled that way to the kill house.
Now inside the kill house was horrible as well. Cattle hanging with no skin still a live. That's when people like Temlpe Grandin stepped in and changed the laws. There is supposed to be a state inspector there now over seeing the plants. No animals can be killed with out him present. Now they do not even except downers. They have to be able to walk in.
Had they treated the horses with some respect, it would have never been an issue.
As with most things when there are no laws people take advantage &  it's a free for all. So the aniaml police (?) have to come in and place all these laws because some darn fools chose to abuse aniamls.
Do you know when you hit an animal it bruises the meat?
So the better quality meat is the better quality treatment.
I surprised France didn't sue us for people getting sick.
As for the parts left, I have seen picture taken in Canada of stock piles of horse parts dumped in the field behind the plant.
for all to see. Now how smart is that!  In my opinion they were asking for it.
 
I don't care what you do for a living it does not give you the right to abuse animals. By your logic Day Care Centers can abuse children because it's there lively hood.
 
Do you even know what the statistics are for a cutting horse that goes to the futurity?
Do you know how many go into training for the big one and never heard from again.
How many times have you seen a stud or a  mare ad that says, unshown due to injury.
Do you even know the impact on there legs & tendons, not to mention the mental stress. There is no other horse sport that is as hard one the body as cutting.
I have asked the NCHA if they didn't want to change to 4 to change it to 4 & under so people who want to show a 4y.o. can. Those that feel there is no difference in 3 & 4 y.o can still show their 3 y.o
Or I have asked them to put it up for a membership vote, let the members decide what they want.
Now, you tell me how am I wrong in any way shape or form?
All I want is the horse thought about first, instead of like your comment "There is always more horses".
 
Keep it up and there won't be and then it's ruined for all of us.
How fair is that!
 

[quote=Cuttin74]

Do you even know what the statistics are for a cutting horse that goes to the futurity?
Do you know how many go into training for the big one and never heard from again.
How many times have you seen a stud or a  mare ad that says, unshown due to injury.
Do you even know the impact on there legs & tendons, not to mention the mental stress. There is no other horse sport that is as hard one the body as cutting.
I have asked the NCHA if they didn't want to change to 4 to change it to 4 & under so people who want to show a 4y.o. can. Those that feel there is no difference in 3 & 4 y.o can still show their 3 y.o

You said the horse go for the big one and are never heard from again. Cutting rejects are Normaly well broke so they can go into almost any kind of riding when there done or rejected. All they need is a little work to make them into a great team penning horse.
The unshown to injury, that happens go look at thoses horses they look healthy, they are well fed, well groomed, isnt that what matters. They are not starving, lack of water, sick.
And on going to 4 year olds I would be fine with that, but is that going to change training? Are the trainers going to wait for them to get older before starting them? You still are going to get the unshown due to injury adds with going with any age.
But thinking about it as i said before raising the age would  be bad for NCHA, and its member and even more in the economy. It will cost more to train a horse for the "big one" if it is in training a extra year. It is one more year they have to keep a horse that is not paying for itself if a good horse. Now for the breeders. Its going to hurt them too. Some people dont even buy horses till they are old enough to put right into training. So that will be another year the breeders have to keep there foals before selling.
just my thoughts
matt

By the NCHA own statistics  
 
As 2 y.o. 11% injured out of  842hd
As 3 y.o  24% injured out of 573hd
As 4 y.o. 28% injured out of 367 hd
As 5/6 y.o. 25% injured out of 475hd
As 7 y.o. 23% injured out of 784 hd
 
Your right most horses are well cared for, but they are also worked to the point of being crippled for life. When you put a half million dollars up and a short time frame to get there, your asking for a disaster. It is a design flaw. The point is quality , I would like to see us take to the fore front and actually do something preventative.
I believe the spokes person for the NCHA said the out come was good.  It looks like they just lost a bunch of horses in the prime of their life
This survey went out to all members but only a small percentage responded. (606)
Given the NCHA has over 14,000 members, that less than 5% responding.

Hock Problems and Age [/H2] by: Heather Smith Thomas
July 01 2009, Article # 14463
 
Horses can suffer hock problems at any age. Scott McClure, DVM, PhD, Dipl. ACVS, an assistant professor in the Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences at Iowa State University, points out that some horses develop juvenile spavin as foals. "This may have to do with how mature the bones were when the horse was born," he explains. Stress of weight bearing on immature bones might create damage and bony changes at a young age.

During heavy training, inflammation will occur and recur and the young horse may require repeated joint injections. "You see this in some older horses as well, if they are used strenuously," notes McClure. "You see some mature horses with beautiful hock joints, but typically the ones that are used heavily will start to develop inflammation at a young age. Others, you may not see it until their teenage years.

"You see some young ones with ugly hocks, some with good hocks, old horses with bad hocks, and some with good hocks," he summarized. "Problems can crop up anywhere across the board, but they are more apt to occur in young ones being used heavily in events like cutting, reining, or roping, where they use their rear end a lot. The other group where you see sore hocks is horses in their teenage years, used in any sport."
 

[quote=Cuttin74]

By the NCHA own statistics
2yo. in training 11% injuries
3 y.o's 24%
4 y.o.'s  28%
5/6 y.o.'s 25%


I do see where you are coming from. But my question would be would this change? would it go down if the age of futuritys went up. The 2 year olds in training wouldnt change. Maybe the 3 year old (in training) may go down 5% Maybe even 4 year old may drop by a percent. So if you do you may save 5-10 horses out of 100.
Dont get me started on trainers. I know there is good ones and bad ones. But If some of the bad trainers would warm up there horses longer before training. Get them in better shape, this wouldnt be such a big issue.
matt

Yeah, just think how awesome it could be if all trainers were hosemen and the horses were more mature when showed.
 
Right now I wouldn't have a clue as to how you could police "trainers". They're going to go behind the barn and do whatever they want.
 
We bougt a SLL daughter, just to breed. She was old, under weight and crippled. I thought her crippling came from just old age. After we bought her, the trainer informed us he bought her form a sale and rode her on cattle, that's how come she walks with a hip out.
I wanted to reach through the phone and slap the tar outta him. Idiot, what was he thinking.
He said he just wanted to see how good she was and said she was awesome.
 
There are some great hands out there and it's the bad ones that ruin it for all of us.

If changing the age wouldn't help our horses, than what would?
I am looking for preventative measures.