How about a game of guess the name? - Driving - Driving - Horse Community, Horse Pictures, Horse Forum and Information

Posted : 5/12/2011 7:19:50 PM

LOL, well... it looks like someone rather cleverly took the undercarriage of a Surrey or Spring Wagon and converted it to a type of a Stage Coach for a parade or something. It's actually kinda cute, in a cartoonish sort of way. It would be a fun decoration, though I wouldn't attempt to drive it.

Here's a reproduction of what they were copying by LiveryOne:

Note the luggage boot in the back and the rounded boot under the driver's box. These vehicles were usually pulled by a team of four or six, more often six. They had extremely heavy gearing, designed to go cross-country in areas where there were no, or very rough, roads. The gearing under these coaches is actually heavier than that of a Connestoga Wagon (Studebaker) and that's saying something! Also, the coaches became so popular, that Abbot and Downing couldn't keep ahead of the production. The later coaches of this design were built in South Bend by the Studebaker Brothers, by contract from Abbot and Downing, still carrying the maker's plate of A & D.

This coach is by HansenWheel:

The Hansen coach below is similar to what my friends the Bartells own and drive, it's called a Mud Wagon. Theirs is the coach I drove a few months ago. They took their coach and six horses to Santa Inez last month for a Symposium on team driving.

These were the Butterfield Stage route's most common coaches. By the by, speaking of Butterfield, did you know that the Coaches at Knott's Berry farm are all antique coaches? Some are well over a hundred years old! The owners of Butterfield Stage Lines (at the time now running motor-coaches) donated all their Stage-Coaches to Walter Knott's park in the forties. Butterfield was later taken over by Greyhound. In fact, most of the old Stage-Coach lines were bought up by the owners of Greyhound.

Hope it didn't put you into overload with all that. I do so love carriages of any type and could natter along about them all day, given the chance!

samsara

Posted : 5/12/2011 10:27:55 PM

I had a feeling that thing wasn't authentic... it's cute though.
You have so much information on carriages and such! Thanks for feeding my brain.

studeclunker

Posted : 5/13/2011 12:00:31 AM

Yeah, it is cute! Needs only a bit of maintenance (paint mainly, especially the wheels) and it would be a great conversation piece in the yard. Maybe even something for the kids to play with. Kids LOVE stuff like this! What I would have given for that carriage when I was ten...[font=verdana] 'Course, it would have to be surrounded by that cushioning shredded rubber stuff. That way the dramatic falls (when you get shot by the bad guy of course) wouldn't cause any lasting harm.[/font]

Connie

Posted : 5/13/2011 1:36:27 PM

Your interest in horse drawn wheeled things made me think of my Uncle's loft that was full of sleighs (the buggies had all been sold). He had one he called a "pickle dish". Any chance you can show me one? My search has only resulted in tableware and quilts.

Learning is fun. Mahalo.

studeclunker

Posted : 5/13/2011 5:43:08 PM

Pickle dish? No idea, not a name I've ever heard. Are you sure it wasn't just his pet name for it? The only thing I could guess would be some kind of Albany as they kinda look like a Pickle dish:

these are currently offered by Daniel Raber of Ohio.

Connie

Posted : 5/13/2011 5:56:37 PM

That is the best I could come up with, too. I borrowed a sleigh from him one winter and drove my horse a few times. I found it fun. He kicked once and broke the shafts. I got replacement ones from a friend. The ones he broke had bells built (screwed) into them.

Thanks for your help.

studeclunker

Posted : 5/15/2011 5:41:14 AM

[quote=Connie]

Thank you for telling us. BTW, I did find that there are seats called "rumble tumble" seats for horse drawn carriages. I, however, bow to your superior knowledge in these matters.

You know, up till now, I hadn't seen an authoritive statement to that. Don't bow too very low as I... WAS... WRONG[size=1](how embarrasing)! James Garland lists a 'Basket Phaeton with Rumble' (by Flandreau of N.Y.) in his book, 'The Private Stable' c.1899. Thus, if the term 'Rumble' denoting the Groom's seat was used by this gentleman, than it would have been an acceptable term and not a colloquialism. I might guess that 'Rumble' referred to a folding in lieu of a stationary seat, but I'm just guessing here.[/size]

studeclunker

Posted : 5/16/2011 3:05:34 AM

I was shown this little gem yesterday and I thought someone else might like to see it. The vehicle is of the type Phaeton, though with a Buggy or light-perch gearing. The variety is Oakland, however I've never seen an Oakland this small. All the same, it's really neat. With the groom's seat (or rumble) extended for use, this little Oakland would benefit from a Hays spring in the rear as I doubt that the original wouldn't sag. The price is good, provided the wheels are, and even more so since the umbrella basket and lamps are included.[ ':D'

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Connie

Posted : 5/18/2011 9:34:12 AM

Pretty nice. I have/had a buggy of some type once. I left it at my ex's. He still has it. He took the wheels off and hung the body upside down from the ceiling. Since we are currently on speaking terms, I might be able to get it, but not sure what to do with one. There is also a folding top, but not sure if it goes with it. This phaeton reminds me a bit of it, but is not quite the same.

I do, however, have a high wheeled race bike that was once used for racing Standardbreds. It is stored in my barn over one of the stalls. &nbsp ';P'

aid too much for it, but hubby felt sorry for the guy who was selling it and bought it.

I love your pictures. Always nice shots and great info.

studeclunker

Posted : 5/25/2011 5:51:37 AM

Here's a little nugget for you:
At one time there was a considerable difference between American vehicles and European. For instance, the finer European vehicles, namely British, were coachman driven. The driver sat upon a high exposed seat and was expected to look regal and stately no matter how foul the weather. Whereas the passengers sat inside the (often in closed carriages) glass windowed cabin safe and snug protected from the elements. Here in the United States, we had a slightly more Republican approach to carriages. Usually they were self-driven or by an employee, not servant. Thus, the employer was somewhat more inclined to protect their employee from the elements. Thus this class of vehicles was born. I'm going to display several vehicles here all but one of the coachman driven vehicles are Brewster of New York. All but one of the owner or more Republican vehicles is by Studebaker. Can anyone guess the class of vehicle? I'll give away part of each's name, but you will have to guess the class.

This is a Brewster Coupe' Brougham. A very nice vehicle, very respectable. Something the town Banker would ride in to work every day. You might say a short limo.

I'm posting two of these, because I want you to see the difference between the undercarriage. This is a Platform geared Coupe' by Kimball (currently offered by Frey Carriages). The next is also a Glass Coupe' by Studebaker. However the Studebaker has a reach and much lighter construction:

Note the exetended roofs on the last two. Also the much lower Driver's seat.

Here's an Omnibus by an unknown maker:

Yeah, this one is a little rough. It also has the most ghastly maroon-pink interior. Gagworthy, truely gagworthy! Other than that, it's a beautiful carriage. Suitable to be coachman driven or owner driven. A sporting-type that can also be used in town. Sometimes they are also called (rather improperly) Opera Buses. Now here's it's American counterpart:

Again, notice the same extended roof and lowered driver's seat. This beautiful Tuxedo Park Jigger was likely used as a hack in the area of Tuxedo Park New York where they were very common. It was lovingly and beautifully restored by the previous owner then it sat forgotten in a carriage house with the rest of his collection for several decades. The current owner inherited it from his father who in turn had purchased it from the restorer.

The last coachman driven vehicle is named after the lady who made them popular, Queen Victoria. This is a&nbsp ';P'

anel Boot Victoria in the Historical Trust of Great Britian:

The more Americanized version of this is not a Surrey, but a Park Phaeton. However, it also falls into the category of Republicanized Aristocratic Coachman-driven vehicles:

One of Studebaker's favourite advertising techniques in the late nineteenth century was to make up a set of post cards of their top-of-the-line carriages. This image is of an original from 1883. Though this vehicle goes by the type Phaeton, which is quite correct, it is an example like the others above of a carriage that was adapted from a coachman-driven type. Note, yet again, the roof has been extended over the driver.

So, can anyone guess the name of this uniquely American class of carriages?

Okay, I'm going to practically give it away here as no one seems to have found the answer. Look in these places and you will find the vehicles:
http://www.colonialcarriage.com/item.cfm?id=45

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/grd/2368478653.html

Durangogramma

Posted : 6/2/2011 4:40:19 AM

Haha. My first thought when I saw the "Omnibus" picture (with the maroon interior) was of the "Bucket of Blood" wagon in Virginia City, NV. Ghastly...ghostly. [ ';)'

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studeclunker

Posted : 6/3/2011 10:46:07 AM

Okay, I'm going to practically give it away here as no one seems to have found the answer. Look in these places and you will find the vehicles: http://www.colonialcarriage.com/item.cfm?id=45
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/grd/2368478653.html

Just in case no one noticed that I added another hint.