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Thoughts on round penning?

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Thoughts on round penning?
  • I got this article in an email newsletter and it really got me thinking.  What do all of you think?  A lot of his points make sense.  



    Do you view a round pen as ideal for training?  Think again!
    Your techniques may need some re-tuning.


    Rethinking the Round Pen

    by Ryan Gingerich


    The round pen revolution has had a dramatic impact on the horse industry, affecting every aspect of how people start horses and retrain problem horses. Many years ago I, too, was a part of the round pen revolution.  I used the same round pen techniques promoted by many of this country#%92s top trainers.  My effectiveness with this technique was good (or so I thought at the time), and I was getting what I believed to be the correct responses from the horse. The horse would turn when I asked, stop when I cued him to stop, and I had a fair amount of control over his feet.

     
    But What About the Horse#%92s Mind?
     
    What I failed to see was the psychological damage that I was causing the horse. It is my opinion that the round pen techniques I once taught and are still taught by others today are a major contributing factor to the serious behavioral issues I deal with on a daily basis.

    My training program, Connective Horsemanship, is designed to allow you to work in any type of area — you don#%92t have to have a round pen. Please understand I have no problem with the round pen itself. When properly designed and used, the round pen provides a safe and efficient means of working with horses.  In fact, I often use the round pen to rehabilitate horses with behavioral issues. It saves me time and effort by keeping them in a more confined area. But my techniques have dramatically changed since I#%92ve researched how horses learn, what creates behavioral issues, and how I can develop the horse without traumatizing his mind.  
     
    I also understand that many horse owners have spent thousands of dollars on round pens, and I#%92m not saying to get rid of them or not to use them. I am simply saying let#%92s look at how we can use them more effectively with an awareness of how to maintain the horse#%92s psychological well-being.
     
    Acknowledging the Horse#%92s Intelligence
     
    Let#%92s talk about current round pen techniques and how they relate to the way horses learn.  Trainers who teach that round pen techniques control the horse#%92s feet rationalize this theory by saying that because the horse moves his feet according to what the trainer wants, the horse is now under control.
     
    I strongly disagree.
     
    My question to these trainers is:  If the round pen wasn#%92t there, would the horse still respond the same way? The answer is always ‘no.#%92 The physical round pen, therefore, becomes a “must” for the desired response by keeping the horse in a confined area. It then follows that the round pen gives the handler a false sense of security and success.  Through negative reinforcement, horses learn that they can stop running (which is a hyper-reactive response) if they follow the handler#%92s movements. Worse yet, I#%92ve seen trainers exhaust the horse in a round pen until the horse, dripping with sweat with sides heaving, literally succumbs from exhaustion.
     
    I want you to look at this from a behavioral point of view.  Since every action that is repeated is learned, what are we teaching the horse?
     
    If the horse spends five minutes running away from us, and five seconds responding to us, which of these activities has the horse practiced more? Right — to run away!  Current round pen techniques teach the horse to associate the human with the flight response. Flight is the horse#%92s first choice for escaping potential or real danger.  The flight response is the horse#%92s basic instinctive response to danger.  Is this the response we want from our horses? For him to think that we represent danger?  Of course not!
     
    The Round Pen as a Source of Behavioral Issues

     
    I have received e-mails from thousands of horse owners since my TV show, ‘The Behaviorist,#%92 aired on RFD-TV January 1st  2008. These people are all asking me to help with their behaviorally-challenged horses.  Almost without fail, these horses have been exposed to many of the round pen techniques we#%92ve discussed here.
     
    So what does that tell us?
     
    We must rethink how we use the round pen!
     
    How Horses Learn
     
    Taking it a step at a time, let#%92s first look at how horses learn.  That#%92s fairly simple; they learn through negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcements are not bad reinforcements — they are actually just the subtraction of pressure.
     
    When we use pressure to train a horse, the horse learns to get relief from pressure by giving a correct response. This simple relief-from-pressure response begins the development of a cue-based language with the horse.  Cues are the language that bridge the gap between human and horse languages. Horses learn by being “told” (the cue) to perform a certain task over and over.
     
    Horses also learn through the flight response; this is simply the mechanism they use to survive in a world of predators and other natural threats. In simple terms, they run away when confused or threatened.
     
    So what#%92s the basic nature of the horse? This animal#%92s basic nature is to be vigilant (since it#%92s a prey animal), but relaxed when not threatened or confused.
     
    Now that we#%92ve defined in simple terms how horses learn, the flight response and the basic nature of the horse, let#%92s go to the round pen.
     
    Creating a Common Language
     
    In the round pen we#%92ll begin the process of teaching our horses a language they can understand and correctly respond to, while avoiding causing a fear or flight response with the techniques we use. This is really an important statement — please read this first sentence a few times! Language = correct response without fear!
     
    I truly believe that if you will think through the process you#%92ve been using in the round pen, these unwanted responses can be eliminated. Not only must you eliminate the unwanted responses, you must find new techniques which teach the horse a simple, consistent language that gets the right response without creating negative behavioral patterns.  In this simple, consistent language, “A is always A” and “B is always B.” I teach one cue for one response.
     
    Remember to keep in mind it#%92s not five minutes of mindless running to get five seconds of response. This is the “new” round pen method of training — not the old one you#%92ve used in the past.
     
    How Much Repetition is Too Much?

     
    As you teach this new language, your horse will be conditioned to respond correctly. Repeat those correct responses in sets of five to seven — not 10, 20, 30 or even more as I#%92ve seen so many trainers do. In fact, what happens to the horse#%92s brain with all those numerous repetitions is that the brain gets “flooded” and literally shuts down any possibility of learning. That#%92s certainly not the outcome we#%92re after.
     
    If at any time the horse gives you an incorrect response without reaching the goal of at least five correct responses, go back to zero and start again. (Take a deep breath, relax, be patient and calm — anger or trying to speed up the process will always lead to disaster.)
     
    Horses are intelligent, but they lack the ability to reason. So simplifying the language relaxes them and they begin to learn. All of this can be taught in the round pen which can provide you with a secure and controlled work area. Make sure you monitor yourself, and don#%92t fall back into old bad habits. By creating this two-way language and response pattern in your horse in a positive way, you#%92ll avoid all those behavioral problems that can result from improper round pen training.
     
    I hope you will take to heart and mind what I have written here and begin using your round pens for the good they can provide for you and your horse. And as always, the Connective Horsemanship program and DVDs will supply you with the answers you#%92re seeking to develop your skills to a higher level.
  • Welcome to the forum!  I like your avatar, beautiful place and horse!
     
    I train horses for a living and well....I have nothing against him personally as I have never shaken his hand but I have to admit what I have seen of him left me with an impression.  Though I would love to see him face off with someone like Clinton Anderson, Craig Cameron, or even Denis Reis
     
    Proper use of the round pen gives the horse a chance to gain confidence with what the handler is asking him to do and the handler the confidence to handle their horse.  The round pen is only a small version of an arena but have you tried puting the first ride on a colt in a 100 x 200?  Most folks wouldn't though some have I wouldn't recomend it even if the colt is doing great with his groundwork.
     
    A round pen gives the horse a safe environment to learn without the distractions of the outside world.  The barn sour horse will happily drag you all the way back if you don't set him up with some rules first and for the horse owner that needs some help the roundpen, square pen of what have you gives them the chance to get that horse soft and working off of the halter BEFORE attempting to fix the problem.  The key to using the round pen is knowing when to move on to something bigger.  Every horse shuts down after a while be it a huge arena or a 60 ft round pen so taking them outside after they have a basic idea of what I am asking only reinforces it.  But on the other hand knowing when to come back to one is just as important.
     
    Be it a square pen, round pen or massive arena none of them were designed to run your horse around in circles until they were too winded to buck you off, but I'm sure some have tried it only to find the horse gets worse and worse over time.   What he fails to mention is what causes these problem roundpen horses.  Most of the time the handler forgets or gets nervous and forgets to reward the horse or releases the pressure at the wrong time giving the horse a reward for the wrong action.  Even my timing gets off after all these years. 
     

  • This was an interesting article! I have to admit I didn't read it all the way through - I got the idea of where he was going with it. I have to totally agree with trainer101. I believe a round pen (square pen, small space, etc...) serves it's purpose initially. Lots of good things come out of using a round pen if you know what you're doing, have a goal, and move on once your goal is accomplished. I have gone to several John Lyons clinics and love watching and learning from the man. I remember a clinic I saw a long time ago where he said (and I paraphrase...the memory isn't as good as it used to be) essentially "once you have the basics down in the round pen, once you have taught the stop, get the horse out of there and start riding it!". I saw a recent clinic of his and again he emphasized riding your horse and not spending time constantly messing with it in the round pen.
    I know that horses like changes of scenery. I haul my horse all over the state of Oregon to trail ride the mountains, desert, beaches and woods. I also do a lot of arena work, I go back to the round pen with him when teaching something new or intricate (like some of my trick training....something I'm starting to get into), I ride him in clinics, I work him in-hand in the field, I take him out just to brush and baby him and sometimes I just plod along the rode with him near his pasture. Every time he sees me he comes running up (even leaving his herd). He never knows what we're going to do but he always seems so excited. If he hears the trailer he gets really jazzed because he knows it's going to be really cool and exciting. Sometimes I trailer him to another arena for a lesson and I can tell he kind of thinks "oh...this is all we're doing" but he does it with a lot of heart anyway. I believe the reason my horse is like this is because I've kept his mind active and I've done lots of interesting and different things with him. So the point here is - most things overdone (except perhaps lots of nice easy trail riding) can really sour a horse, including over using the round pen. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water...lots of good training can come out of the round pen - just remember your horse has a mind and you need to engage him in other things as well.
  • I love this topic.  The trainer/author wrote in his basic theory:
     
    Acknowledging the Horse#%92s Intelligence Let#%92s talk about current round pen techniques and how they relate to the way horses learn. Trainers who teach that round pen techniques control the horse#%92s feet rationalize this theory by saying that because the horse moves his feet according to what the trainer wants, the horse is now under control.

     
    I feel that his theory is a bit flawed here which really set up his entire premise.  I personally don't use a round pen to "move the horses feet" or to "get control" but I use it to gain the respect of the horse and establish a relationship.  You don't have to run your horse around in circles to get the horse to "join up" to you which is usually the first goal I try to acheive when working in a round pen.  Once a horse is willing to join up with you, everything after that is much easier.
     
    I like most everything else of what this author was saying, especially about the "relax, stay calm, take a deep breath" part.  Patience and ending on a good note is maybe the two most important things when working with a horse.
     
    Here's a good example from a recent horse incident.
     
    One of the 18 horses we had to give wormers to didn't want to take it.  No surprise for this horse.  I decided to take the horse into the round pen.  I didn't run the horse around in circles....actually I did the opposite!  I asked the horse to walk...not trot.  The horse was confused because like most horses, the round pen means running!  Horses are smart and quickly realized I wasn't asking for a trot, but only a walk.  I asked for both directions at the walk.  Then a join up.  Success!  I lead the horse in some short circles for a minute or so, then stopped.  I had been working with a partner in the center of the round pen with me....after the join up my partner tried to give the wormer, but the horse rejected it.  I asked the horse to walk again around two times, then join up....repeating the scenario.  My partner tried to give the wormer again and failed.  The horse being at my side, I just asked for the wormer at that point and inserted it, shot it, no fuss and in it went.
     
    I think the horse appreciated me for what I had asked of him.  I did not ask for work, only to listen and trust.
     
    Point here being, the round pen has many uses, and does not always need to be used for an excersize tool.  Moving the horses feet is very helpful to get a horse to listen to you and get it using it's thinking side of the brain.
     
    If you read and watch many different trainers, you will pick and choose the good parts from each as I have found that most have something positive to offer.
     
    Trainer101 is awesome and I would listen to her for'chure! ':)'  I do.
     
     
    Eric
     
     
  • I don't use a round pen to "exercise" or move a horse. I use it to gain control and teach the horse in a safe environment...and I also use it to try out a horse I'm unsure of, or for the kids to ride in as they can ride fairly safely, can't get away from me, are within reach.
     
    I'll use the round pen to halter break colts, to get them accustomed to ropes, to teach them to lead. Use it when initially in troducing horses to anything new you think might cause a problem.
     
    But as far as using a round-pen to chase a horse around in for no definable purpose,  I think that's about as useful as lounging them in circles for hour after hour, day after day, month after month, when they're broke, 18 years old, and completely fine on the lounge line. Or for a five year old who needs to move onto the next step before it starts to challenge the situation.