Training technique to stop grass snatching on the trail!

Make him work. If you have room make him go in circles a few times every time he snacks.

I don't want my horses to think of me riding them as Work. I want them enjoying themselves too. Therefore, my approach to this is that they are frequently *allowed* to eat when on a trail, but I don't *let* them do it whenever. My rules are that when we're walking quietly, my horse is generally allowed to snatch mouthfuls, so long as he keeps moving at the same pace. If I ask him not to, or he otherwise does it when I don't want him to, I first ask politely to get on with it, then start tapping him on the shoulder - gradually getting harder, while I start squeezing with my legs. Just make it uncomfortable for him, so that he chooses the easiest route. To avoid confusion, lack of effectiveness, etc, ensure the pressure & release are very well timed, and be consistent about what you will & won't allow or let. Also rewarding the horse with Something Good, such as a piece of carrot, when he puts his head up is incredibly helpful.

I do allow my horse to snack a little while on the ride because I do want the horse to enjoy the ride and not dread it. However, always keep in mind that when they have a bit in their mouth they could choke.

Keep your reins long enough to be comfortable, but short enough to keep him from sticking his head down.  That way, he won't be irritated or offended by your jerking and kicking, he'll just think, "Hey!  I just ran into that stupid bridle!  Guess I shouldn't stick my head down there!"  My horse used to be really bad about that - he pulled me forward out of the saddle even!  Achor yourself firmly back on your seat bone and push into your horse's withers to stay put, but don't ever jerk on your horse's mouth or kick him hard.  Horses know when you're mad or frustrated and they'll lose respect for you very quickly if you act out  of those emotions!  Not to mention, they'll become dull and unresponsive and eventually ignore you.  Keep him busy and be consistent with HOLDING and not&nbspULLING or kicking and he'll get better quickly!

If you decide, as per rlassbuck, that you aren't going to allow this at all, depending on the previous experience of the horse & your riding style - eg. a horse who's experienced at reefing reins or if like me, you prefer to ride on a loose rein - it may be difficult or impossible to prevent the horse getting his head down without a fight. I recently discovered a gadget called 'grass reins' that are straps that go from the saddle, through the headpiece ring & down to the bit. This will allow you to ride with a loose rein, allow the horse freedom, but be just short enough to prevent him getting his head right down.

I've considered this for my young kids, because regardless of how hard they pull, they have no strength enough for their pony & I don't want him learning bad habits. Just got to suss out how to make it work without a bit...

That's a cool gadget!  It would keep your fingers from getting smashed in the saddle horn too!

It's been a month or two since I posted this, and I have made a lot of progress.  I just noticed this last weekend that he only went for some bites on the way home, and just twice.....and we were out for 3 hours and that was the first snatch attempt.  I was happy, and we were riding very comfortably on our trail ride.
 
I do like to use a loose rein, and I have been riding my four year old in the bosal (hackamore) and he can feel the slightest lift of my rein.  I never pull, but only bump.  I also kick with one heel into his rib, and he doesn't like that either.  It's working for us, so will keep up with it.........
 
Unfortunately, I am not really happy with his performance going down hill and he's dragging his legs, and shortening his stride on the rear each time we step down a grade. 
 
I have a feeling his round pen training was too hard on his hocks, and I am having him looked at soon.  I have reached out to my vet to discuss...will hopefully figure it out.  I have never experienced this issue with a horse, so not sure what to expect.  Is this something that can be fixed or is the horse screwed?  All gaits on the flat are perfect, so I am not sure why the downhill, other than it forces the horse to sit back.
 
Ideas?
 
Eric

Hi Eric,

Good to hear you're doing well with the grass training. Sorry to hear your boy's not so sound tho.

Yes, especially if he's only 4yo now & has had lots of hard work in a pen or lunged, unfortunately that could have caused problems. Some pro-active treatment to help prevent/treat early arthritic changes, such as joint supps might be a good move. As he's only 4yo, if treated right now, I think there's a good prognosis. Nutritional imbalance can also cause arthritis, so I'd make sure his diet was good, with the right supps.

Being a hcp, I know that heel pain & consequently toe-first landings are very common. This is also a common cause of horses short stepping & particularly when traveling down hill. Hopefully at only 4yo he's not yet shod, but if so, I'd deshoe him to allow good function and boot him if/when necessary for him to *comfortably* use his feet correctly. Of course I'm but one anonymous opinion & there are contradictory ones out there, so if you haven't already, do your own homework in order to be able to make an informed evaluation & decisions on the state of your horse's feet & what you'll do about it. hoofrehab.com is a great place to start.

Wundahoss.....
 
Thanks for that.  I had a long discussion with my vet last night, and we are going to start with some bute, and see if that gives us a change....if it does, we know it's soreness and not mental.  The horse does have some thrush in his front left heel, and I am treating.  The stride shortening is not new, so I don't think the thrush in his front is any indicator.
 
If he does feel better with the bute, we then start blocking up the leg to see where the problem is. 
 
He is shod, and I have an excellent farrier......So I don't think this is a hoof issue.....and our trails are not barefoot friendly....
 
I did receive a comment from the farrier that his hoof's are not growing as fast as he would like to see, and I put him on Hoof Power supplement and off the Platinum.  I am guessing that if this is a hock issue, it could be restricting the blood flow to his rear feet and lessening the growth potential.  Lack of blood flow would logically do that....same as in humans, when there is inflamation in a joint, it causes growth problems....and I know this because both my daughters have small cases of juvenille rheumatoid arthritis which we have managed, but not without an education and treatments.
 
I would also like to mention, that he is very hesitant to lift his right rear foot when picking it up.  All other feet are great and he's got no issues.  So....does this mean he's sore on the leg he doesn't want to lift? Or does he not want to put weight on the other side?  Eventually, he does lift and the farrier can get his work done.  The farm where he was born and raised had mentioned that he had lost a shoe, and was sore on that side....but they might not have realized the real meaning of his hesitation or even known about his downhill syndrome.
 
I think that's all the info I got to make a diagnosis.....I am just not sure if this is a curable issue, or if I should exchange the horse for another.....I do love this one, and he's a real sweetheart, and just wants to be in your pocket....but then again, I can get all my horses to be lovers
 
Keep you posted and I appreciate your comments.
 
 

Hi,

I reckon it's a very safe bet that it is physical, not mental. Below is some more info, mainly on hooves, as that's what I know best Again, obviously I realise this is just my opinion, based on my study & experience in rehabbing hooves & there are conflicting opinions out there... I don't expect you to take my word for anything, but likewise, I hope people don't just blindly take the word of any 'expert' no matter what piece of paper they have, but rather do their own homework, weight up the pros & cons & make *informed* decisions on which principles, methods & approaches you think best. hoofrehab.com is one great, well researched site with heaps of info on my point of view.

Thrush is indeed *generally* an indicator of unhealthy feet - Those with truly healthy feet don't tend to be susceptible to it even in predisposing(boggy, yukky) environments. Perhaps the thrush hasn't been as long lived as the stride shortening, but it's weak digital cushions & lack of good hoof function that has basically caused both.

I hope you do indeed have a good farrier. But if you would like another opinion on his feet - & there are also others here that know about feet besides me too - post some hoof pics. A variety of angles is good. Even if you do have a great farrier, the environment the horse grew up in & his management may be the underlying cause of weak feet(As is most conventional horse management/environments). Shoeing(even if done well) before maturity and long term without regular breaks can cause them to worsen. It could well be a hock problem causing reduction in circulation to his backs, but lack of good hoof function, as evidenced by thrush, is causing lack of circulation to the fronts, of which the shoes would be contributing. Could also be incorrect hoof function(toe first impacts) combined with further jarring effects of metal shoes that has caused hock problems.

Re trails not being barefoot friendly, yes, if the horse does have weak heels & thrush, most footing won't be 'barefoot friendly'(or IMO conventional-shoes-without-protection-friendly) which is why I mentioned boots as one good alternative. With any luck, with the right management, he could become sound & strong enough to breeze thru your trails bare one day, but if he doesn't, boots are also generally a good long term option.

Re not wanting to give one back foot, it could well be the other leg that's sorest - perhaps something's out in his hip, the extra weight on a sensitive hoof is uncomfortable or it is indeed his hock. Or it could be the flexing of the leg you're picking up that's hurting.

Your experience is notably respectable, and I would be foolish not to value your opinion equally to others.  I am lucky to have built a strong relationship with my vet and farrier, and will discuss all possible causes and solutions. 
 
For the record, I am not against barefoot horses, and I actually care for one the last 4-5 years that is barefoot.  But, although no longer being ridden,  her feet never seemed to have chipped when we did ride her and they remain very healthy.
 
My vet did mention hoof's first, and asked if the farrier recently hoof tested my horse, but didn't.  I had not really mentioned the problem to him as I guess it was in my head that it was a hock issue, and now in retrospect, I should have said something.  I didn't really imagine it was a foot problem.
 
I am now trying to invision how down hill slopes can put the horse on it's toes, and cause pain.  Why would he drag his rear legs and shorten stride in the rear? If it is in his hocks...is that fixable, reoccurring?
 
It would be great if I understood those three things....if you know....thanks for sharing
 
Best regards,

Hi,

I am lucky to have built a strong relationship with my vet and farrier, and will discuss all possible causes and solutions.

Yep, that's good of course. I'm trying to say that even if they are great, there may still be recent findings they're not aware of, so it pays to learn a bit yourself, and don't discount thing *just* because they may, or they don't know about it.

I guess it was in my head that it was a hock issue, .....
I am now trying to invision how down hill slopes can put the horse on it's toes, and cause pain.  Why would he drag his rear legs and shorten stride in the rear? If it is in his hocks...is that fixable, reoccurring?

I'm no vet, haven't had too much experience with hock probs. It could well be what you imagined. Think I mentioned earlier what I *guessed* might be the prognosis for a youngster, well managed with hock probs? But don't discount other possibilities.

Down hill slopes don't put the horse on it's toes - it's already moving in that manner due to heel sensitivity. It's just that it's a lot more noticeable, as the horse becomes pottery trying to avoid heel pressure. This is what often manifests as very short strides.

If the toes are long or stretched, especially if he's 'tippy-toeing' too, this can lead to him dragging his toes. But another thing that I didn't think of till now is the possibility of patella problem. This causes a horse to drag his back toes, be a bit pottery when they lock up and can make lifting feet difficult.

Don't know why I didn't think of it earlier, considering I have a pony who has(well, hopefully had) the prob. First I noticed was every now & then he was reluctant to lift one back leg, but when he did, it was often extremely stiff, until he stretched it & flexed it by kicking out suddenly(yes, it was def. physical, not behavioural Then I noticed every now &  then he'd get 'pottery' & short stride, especially on hills. He would also drag his toes sometimes & wear them flat across the front if he was on bitumen.

After having vets & bodyworkers previously tell me it's a conformational thing that he'll probably always have, I tried a 'cranio-sacral' practitioner who came highly recommended.(Not the kind of 'spooky stuff' I usually give much credence to, but thought it worth a try after seeing changes in friend's horses) Well! to cut a long story short, this problem hasn't surfaced for about 3 months now, since not long after her first visit, and this pony also had some other major, supposedly unchangeable spinal probs that have greatly reduced, if not seemingly disappeared all together... I only had her to him twice & she told me to play it by ear, but she didn't expect him to need her again, at least not in the near future. Part of the treatment for the patella prob was to get him stepping regularly over low logs or cavaletti, to strengthen his knees. Thankfully I already keep my boys on a 'paddock paradise' circuit, so I just put about 10 logs across the track, which effectively means he does these exercises a number of times a day without me having to go there.

Anyway, just telling you about that in case that's his main prob.... keep us posted.

Thanks!
 
I will keep you posted.....
 
My plan is to bute him in the morning, wait two hours, then go for a ride and see.  If he's better, I will have the vet do some blocking or xrays......depending on what the vet decides after watching him walk up and down some hills to get a better idea of his shortened movement.
 
Thanks for the thoughts....and I will get back
 
Eric

Moving thread to Health and Supplement forum.....posting photos of his hoof...please join me there to continue.
 
Thanks!
 
Eric