Eating Manure

Triniti...could be a mineral deficiency?  How much and what are you feeding her?  How old is she?  And maybe some worming is in order?

I bought all of mine mineral blocks today, per a suggestion from another boarder.  We'll see how that goes. 
  What I don't understand is how she started this now when I've been feeding her pretty much the same thing for the last 6 years. I've had her for 11 years and she's never done it before.  Is it something I should worry about?
  She gets 1 3/4 3qt scoops of a 14% pelleted feed, Nutrena Safechoice, (not sure on pound amount) thats mixed with some corn (about 30%) and 2 flakes of grass hay with a 1/2 flake of alfalfa daily.
  She's currently 13 years old and on the worming: she was wormed at the end of March with ivermectin. Right now I'm waiting for it to get out of her system, 90 days, so I can take a stool sample to the vet to be analyzed.  My barn/vet had a big clinic about worming and how we've been over-worming for years by doing it every 2 months, kinda like the over-use of antibiotics.

My horse farm neighbors put out large tubs of minerals from TSC.  (blue tubs) The horses get free-choice and eat a lot at the beginning but when their minerals are all balanced they slow down and just eat what they need.  It's granular, I believe.  I want to get that for mine but have never coordinated the trip with the truck to TSC at the same time - or they're out, etc.  I've heard mineral blocks are sort of hit or miss on value. 
 
Have you googled this?  I'd like to know what you find out.  Maybe she's been watching the dogs! [] 
Speaking of... I have poop-eater dogs (or have had) but they're selective about the poop they eat.  They preferred the tiny dog poop...  okay, TMI.  LOL []  Of course they ALL love horse poop!!!  In the winter, little Carmy acts like it's popsicles!  [:'(]

How is the corn pocessed?  cracked, rolled, whole?  Do you see corn in her poop?  if you're seeing it then she's not digesting it.  I'm also interested in what you find out.

hunter- my jade LOVES the cat poops.

We had a gelding who ate anyone's manure and the rest of the horses started doing it too, then when we sold that gelding, they stopped!
 
Ugghhh, we've got litter box raiders around here..... but luckily not their own...... blaahhhhh!

[quote=samsara]

How is the corn pocessed?  cracked, rolled, whole?  Do you see corn in her poop?  if you're seeing it then she's not digesting it.  I'm also interested in what you find out.

hunter- my jade LOVES the cat poops.


We've had dogs that would eat cat poop. Jokingly called it tootsie rolls.

[quote=Durangogramma]


We've had dogs that would eat cat poop. Jokingly called it tootsie rolls.


hehe, I call it trail mix..

LOL!!  Trail mix....... yikes!  I just hate it when they come running up, jump up and give you a slurp on the face and you realize, OMG, you've been cleaning the litter box!!!!

[:'(] Eeeewwwww! You can get For-Bid  from vets and pet suppliers. It's about $15 dollars a box. It works for cats and dogs. 
Revival also has Snoop no poop and Fe-cease
Deficiency of B-bcomplex vitamins causes stool eating. (Coprophagia)
 Maybe the same cause for horses?????

It could be stress, or boredom, or the need for fiber, or to re-populate the microbial population or a combination of all of these things.
A horse not getting enough "chew time" will look for fiber elsewhere, the stall, the bedding, the manure. Horses are grazing animals and their intake is constant. Stomach acid is being produced constantly, unlike us. They were not designed to eat meals. When a horse's stomach is empty, the acid is still being produced while he waits for his next meal. With no fiber to keep the acid "waves" down, it can slosh up into the upper part of the stomach that is not able to handle it, hence ulcers. A slow feeder would help with keeping a constant flow of fiber passing through.
Stress also will cause this. Horses not being fed to schedule and upset by it, or not in a preferred peaceful place when being fed. There are nutrients in manure that are not digested in the horse, so if anyone comes along in need, they'll recognize it for what it is.
Yes, the lack of sufficient vitamins and minerals can cause manure eating. If there are any trees in the paddock, is there evidence of bark being stripped from them? Free choice minerals and salt should be always available. So should deworming be on schedule. Mineral blocks will not do the job. He'd have to lick his tongue off in the process of meeting his needs.
If the horse has been on antibiotics, he'll eat manure to replenish good bacteria. A foal will eat manure to introduce his first microbial population to prepare for his first solid food.
 
There's always a reason and the horse knows perfectly well what that reason is, lol! Too bad he can't talk! You can go through these with the process of elimination, but I have a feeling that the free choice minerals and the slow feeder are your best move. The slow feeder will take care of the boredom, stress and the empty stomach. The minerals will definitely start filling in the nutritional holes in the diet.
Hope this helps....

wow, that was a great answer missyclare.  (Ulcers scare the heck out of me! )

   Sorry its taken so long to get back on this and bringing up an old(ish) topic.... My mare is still eating her own manure and now the gelding stalled next to her is doing the same thing.
    I've changed feed to a 'complete' feed called Total Equine (it looks like green dog food tehehe).  All that is supposedly needed in addition is salt and hay and is also supposed to be highly digestible and create less actual waste.  She's a picky eater when it comes to anything besides her grain and hay and wont touch a mineral block anyway but will lick plain salt. As for hay its limited to 2-3 flakes per day. 1 at night when she and my other 2 are turned out and 1-2 in the mornings on turn-in.  There isn't much in the way of forage out in the pasture as there has been no rain nearly all year here in central Texas.  And to top it off plain grass hay is around $10-11 per bale and getting extremely hard to even find. My other horses are on the same thing and they are fine and don't eat their manure. 
  As for deworming.  My guys have been on a regular 2 month rotating schedule for years.  However the vet clinic here has been doing research and tests that prove the same thing for wormer as humans and over-using antibiotics and testing manure to see how fast your horse "sheds" to see how often they need wormed.  Also, in a southern/hot climate (85 degrees plus daily) there is no need to deworm because the parasites can't grow or reproduce or something of that sort, I can't remember the exact reason.  And cold climates below a certain temperature are the same.
   Now, boredom... I imagine she does get very bored in or out of her stall.  When out in the pasture she does eat other horses' manure as well.  I bought some slow-feed hay nets to try and give her more time to munch on the hay I can give her, another boarder suggestion, but unlike that boarder's horses who take 2-3 days to eat 6 flakes, mine can destroy whats in the net in barely more time than what they would with loose hay.  Is that what you were talking about for slow feeder missyclare? Or is there some sort for grain and such as well?
   Final question on this I guess: is it dangerous/bad/unhealthy for her? Should I just let it go or keep trying to stop her?
Thanks for the input! I really do apprecate it.

Sorry, I haven't seen this till now. It sounds from the news that you are getting into trouble with the hay supply in Texas these days. I'm sorry to hear that. I imagine there's a lot of horses to feed in Texas! I suspect that it is a lack of fiber/amount fed/nutrients that is causing her to eat manure.
Are any of the other horses eating something she's not? Corn will be "universal" like that. I don't think corn should even be in the diet. Very high starch content coupled with explosive energy. How's her weight holding? How many lbs. does she weigh and how many lbs. in those 3 flakes of hay is she eating? I'd take a weigh scale to the barn and actually weigh them, then see if they meet the 2% of her body weight that she requires. If not, then she's hungry for fiber and probably bored, cause she'll finish a flake in 30 minutes, then what about the other "xxx" hours of nothing? The slow feeders are called slow feeders and have smaller holes (1-1 1/4") vs. the normal hay nets. Way smaller holes. Make sure you got a slow feeder. a) considering the drought, these bags waste far less hay. b) will keep her busy longer in the stall and keep her stomach going longer. I saved $400 on my hay last winter for 3 horses. (that might make the BO sit up and take note) Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes are a very good choice as a hay extender.

I also suspect that there is a lot of sugar in her diet. The Total Equine is not total to me, as I can't find a diet analysis of that product. (maybe you will be more successful) I don't like 35% NSC! I sure wouldn't feed that to laminitic or foundered horse, unless I wanted him to keep foundering. That number is very important and shouldn't be over 10-12% and sugar is not the answer to a drought situation. Horses need fiber, not sugar and balanced nutrients that will be absorbed. Starch is even worse than sugar and that's the baddie in the corn. Oats is worse. Oats is so high, that they use oats to measure everything else against it. What I would do is get a hay stretcher, not replacer. If she's not old and losing her teeth and ability to eat hay, I would lean on your best friend.....the hay, in a slow feeder. I would also weigh the hay and know she's getting what she needs. This is where she could lack for fiber. This might be also why she is still hungry and seeks out everybody else's "corn poops".

Another concern about the sugar is the pasture out there. I'm imagining that there's not much left of it. Once the grass gets into this kind of stress situation, the sugar has no blade to go up and work, so it stores at the base, tries to survive and wait for it. As the horse grazes on these nubs, its like pure sugar to him. Are there any dry lots available for exercise without sugar consumption?

Make sure she's getting her minerals. I prefer free choice, but if she's not eating them, then feed them and make her. (taste of copper is yucky) Buckeye, they eat like candy. There's no indication of flavouring on the analysis, but I know something is in there. If I free choice it, they eat more than they are expected to eat. (I'm quitting it, as new hay is in, have analyzed it and ordering minerals that are balanced with the hay. I just got it for the summer to carry me while waiting for the hay.) There's lots of good minerals out there, though and considering your drought situation, I would tend to get a good one in the face of it and put it in her stall. Don't mix salt in it. Keep it separate. 1-3tbn/day. Very important. Salt drives thirst. I'd probably be at 2-3 tbns./day in your situation. Water is everything when it comes to absorption, proper motility and metabolism, not to mention the electrolytes needed. Never underestimate the ability of trace minerals to boost her overall health/coat/feet. Magic stuff! If she won't eat the minerals, consider a flavouring. Herbalcom.com has red beet root powder, which they love better than carrots and will keep the sugar down in the process. Fennugeek is another one, but higher in sugar.

Another possible reason is that her hours of starvation with no hay has upset her enzymes and she's eating manure to get them back. She's "off" in her ability to absorb and metabolize. Foals will do this so that they can get the enzymes from Mom, so that they can start digesting what she eats. This is how they get their systems going. So, some probiotics may help also.

Whatever the reason that she is eating others poo, know that she is on a mission, lacking, and trying to make up for it.

I would address these areas;

1.  Hay- make sure its adequate and lasts longer.
2.  Minerals - if not eating free choice, feed it.
3.  Salt and near the water or feed it.
4.  Hay extender, which you can extend more as the needs arise.
5.  Probiotics for a healthy gut.
6.  Fresh ground flax 2-4oz/day....fights inflammation, beautiful coat and helps fight the sugar in the diet as well.

When you get things going, you may find that everyone is eating her poo instead. That should show the BO one heck of a hole in their feeding program. I hope things improve with the drought. Be watchful in the meantime. Consider that pasture not only useless, but bad as well. When they put the hay out there, does she eat it up immediately before starting to forage around? Or does she go out there and saunter back to the hay later? That will tell you something also. I would consider the pasture mere playground with the serious nutrition being served up at the barn.

You can buy a bag of feed with all this stuff in it, but they are also high in iron, which deletes the absorption of the minerals in it. If you mix the mineral/salt/flax/probiotics in daily baggies that the barn could feed for you. (a week in advance, for example) or free choicing what you can in the stall, you will be farther ahead and not adding more iron in the process. A handful of oats to deliver this meal won't hurt anything. Do what you can....what works. Also, if the pasture is just a mere playground out there, I'd consider her on a hay only diet as well. That means she needs Vit E.....1000mg/day. (3.... 400mg gel caps from the drug store) You could stick those in the baggies as well.

Another limitation to her diet is the fences around that pasture as well....hurts her variety needed. Bring an apple a day to keep the vet away, 2 large carrots have the daily requirement of carotene in its natural form. (vit A) You'd be surprised what all a horse can eat. Go for it. Don't overdo any one thing, but explore and see what she will eat, then add it. Nuts, seeds, fruits, veggies, grass from the other side of the fence, leaves off trees....anything. When you come to the barn it should be "salad time", lol! Mine are crazy for cucs! I actually grow a garden just for them, but grabbing a few things out of the fridge before you go works too.

Sorry, if I thought you were boarding, if you're not. Its all good anyway......

Hope this helps....
 

Have you tried talking to your vet about this?  My vet told me once that the worst thing you can feed a horse is added corn, because he said it ferments in their gut and they have a very hard time digesting it.  He scared me from ever feeding corn to a horse.  I know a lot of feed has some in it, but he flat out said you should never add it to their food.  I don't know though if that would have anything to do with this.  It does sound like either a boredom issue or mineral issue.  I would try talking to the vet, and ask your vet their thoughts on corn too.  My vet said once as long as people feed corn and bermuda hay he'll always have a job, because the two cause a ton of colic problems!  I know that's probably opening a WHOLE new discussion topic there, so don't kill the messenger, I'm just sharing what my vet has said in the past!   Good luck!