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strange health problems- HELP?

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strange health problems- HELP?
  • me again, forgot a couple ?  You Babe-what is OCD?  I know what it is in people but not horses.   Also, anybody know of a horse therapist in Northeast Wisconsin?  Checked the phone book- nothing.  She's just coming 4 and being draft cross I have taken it slow and easy with her- just mostly walk/trot trails with her.  Although I'm sure she could have done something horsin' around in the pasture too.
      Is there anything I can give her for the pain/swelling?  Does anyone recommend a topical something?  Vet's closed til Tuesday- so I'm asking about anything that I can get at Fleet Farm or ?
       oh and hunter seat- LOL- yes I called the vet!    yes, she is (getting) expensive but you know how it is! I sure wouldn't mind the money part if she was getting some relief!
  • I see 6 in WI on this site.  If no one is close to you they probably travel at some point or another.  I'd email them all (seperately) with a canned letter asking for help in your area.  They may know someone or they may travel...  I emailed my therapist today telling her to get us back on her schedule.  One of mine has physical problems from mechanical issues.  One has physical problems from emotional issues.  I think that's amazing.
    Oops - almost forgot the link: http://www.iaath.com/prac_dir/search.php
  • Dangers of Bute in HorsesStory by Eleanor Kellon, VMDHigh-Risk Horses
    Both very young and very old horses are at higher risk for side effects from phenylbutazone. As with any drug, caution should also be used in horses that are ill or under stress. Bute should not be combined with other anti-inflammatory medications, such as aspirin or Banamine, or used at the same time as herbs that can influence clotting time, such as hawthorn, salvia, angelica, ginkgo, feverfew and ginger. Use bute with extreme caution in a horse with a history of kidney or intestinal tract problems, and with drugs that may have negative effects on the kidneys, such as the antibiotic gentamicin.
    Bute, short for phenylbutazone, is probably the most widely used drug in horses. Bute is an inexpensive, highly effective treatment for inflammation and pain that can be injected intravenously or given orally to horses as a powder or paste. However, like any drug, bute has its disadvantages.
    Bute works by inhibiting a class of enzymes called cyclo-oxygenases, COX for short. Activation of this system is a necessary step in the complex chain of events that results in inflammation.
    So far, so good, but it turns out that horses also need COX enzymes for normal kidney function, for secretion of the protective lining that shields the intestines from damage and for production of blood cells. Low-level activation of the "bad," inflammatory COX enzymes is essential for normal healing of tissues after injury or just plain routine wear-and-tear repairs.
    Horses treated with bute, especially at high doses or for long periods of time, can develop ulcers in their stomachs or colon, kidney damage and, in some cases, bone marrow suppression, although bone marrow problems are less common. More recent research has found that bute can slow the production of joint cartilage and delay bone healing. Bute also interferes with thyroid function.
    This doesn#%92t mean that you should never use phenylbutazone. It does mean it should be used properly and only when necessary. Anti-inflammatory drugs are meant to be used for a relatively short period of time (days) for acute/new problems or flareups of active problems, for example, when a horse pulls a tendon, has acute laminitis or is worked too hard and an old joint problem becomes obviously worse. Three to seven days is the usual treatment course.
    Fortunately, you have some effective alternatives to dealing with inflammation and acute or chronic pain. Use phenylbutazone for short courses when really indicated, but otherwise try one or more of the following.
    Cold
    Cold is an extremely effective way to block inflammatory reactions in their tracks and also provides pain relief. The feet and lower legs of horses are very tolerant of cold. It can also be used for wounds, stings, bites, etc. on the body.
    For the feet and lower legs, stand the horse in cold running water, a bath of ice water or use ice wraps. To avoid the mess if you don#%92t have ice wraps, place several cotton leg wraps soaked with rubbing alcohol or witch hazel in the freezer and use these after they have super-cooled for an hour or more. (You should change them every 15 to 20 minutes for best effect.) Sore, hot feet can be packed with a poultice that has been chilled in the freezer when you#%92ve finished icing.
    Ice/cool as often as possible and as long as possible for best results. Horses#%92 lower legs have been kept in ice-water baths for one to two days with no ill effects.
    Bandaging
    Have you ever left an emergency room or your doctor#%92s office with a sprain or swollen joint and not had it wrapped? Bandaging helps stabilize the area to prevent extremes of movement, provides mild support and controls swelling. The result is usually an immediate improvement in comfort.
    Problem tendons, ligaments and fetlock joints can be wrapped with regular standing wraps. Knees and hocks can receive some support by using a human elastic or lightweight synthetic knee brace. Adjust the brace so that the hole is positioned over the bony prominence at the point of the hock or in the back of the knee.
    Caution: Do not wrap hot, swollen legs if you are not expert at applying bandages. Uneven pressure can cause serious problems. Always wrap after thoroughly cooling out the area. Braces on knees and hocks should be just snug enough to stay in place and should never leave an indentation on the skin. Wrapped areas should be checked several times a day to make sure the wrap or brace has stayed in place and that there is no swelling of the skin above or below the wrap. If there is a mark on the skin at the edge of the wrap, it#%92s too tight. You should be able to easily insert a fingertip between wrap/brace and skin. If you are unsure, don#%92t use wraps or braces.
    Herbal Alternatives
    A variety of herbs have been used as substitutes for phenylbutazone, aspirin and other anti-inflammatory drugs. For rapid control in acute situations, your best bet is a product with an effective dose of Devil#%92s Claw, such as the liquid B-L Solution, www.equineamerica.com, or the powdered products DC-Y, www.medvetpharm.com, or Devil#%92s Claw Plus from www.uckele.com.
    For long-term control of pain and low-grade inflammation in chronic conditions, try products based on Boswellia, curcumin and ginger like Phyto-Quench, www.uckele.com, or Pain Management, www.platinumperformance.com. These latter products may take longer to reach full effect.
    Topicals
    Use caution with most liniments and rubs because the initial icy feeling quickly gives way to warmth as an irritant effect occurs, which leads to more blood flow and possibly more swelling. When there is evidence of worsening pain and any suspicion of reactivated inflammation, your safest and most effective choice is Sore No More, an Arnica-based liniment in a nondrying, witch hazel base, from www.equilite.com.
    For topical pain/stiffness relief after acute inflammation is controlled, in place of bute try a topical capsaicin cream like Equi-Block, www.donalex.com. Capsaicin works by depleting one of the chemical messengers that cause the sensation of pain. For best results, it should be applied several times daily the first few days.
    Caution: Capsaicin itself causes an unpleasant sensation when first applied, should not be used under wraps and should not be used in acutely inflamed areas.
    For more information on bute, check out www.drugs.com/cons/Phenylbutazone.html
  • [quote=SecondChance]

    Dangers of Bute in HorsesStory by Eleanor Kellon, VMDHigh-Risk Horses
    Both very young and very old horses are at higher risk for side effects from phenylbutazone. As with any drug, caution should also be used in horses that are ill or under stress. Bute should not be combined with other anti-inflammatory medications, such as aspirin or Banamine, or used at the same time as herbs that can influence clotting time, such as hawthorn, salvia, angelica, ginkgo, feverfew and ginger. Use bute with extreme caution in a horse with a history of kidney or intestinal tract problems, and with drugs that may have negative effects on the kidneys, such as the antibiotic gentamicin.
    Bute, short for phenylbutazone, is probably the most widely used drug in horses. Bute is an inexpensive, highly effective treatment for inflammation and pain that can be injected intravenously or given orally to horses as a powder or paste. However, like any drug, bute has its disadvantages.
    Bute works by inhibiting a class of enzymes called cyclo-oxygenases, COX for short. Activation of this system is a necessary step in the complex chain of events that results in inflammation.
    So far, so good, but it turns out that horses also need COX enzymes for normal kidney function, for secretion of the protective lining that shields the intestines from damage and for production of blood cells. Low-level activation of the "bad," inflammatory COX enzymes is essential for normal healing of tissues after injury or just plain routine wear-and-tear repairs.
    Horses treated with bute, especially at high doses or for long periods of time, can develop ulcers in their stomachs or colon, kidney damage and, in some cases, bone marrow suppression, although bone marrow problems are less common. More recent research has found that bute can slow the production of joint cartilage and delay bone healing. Bute also interferes with thyroid function.
    This doesn#%92t mean that you should never use phenylbutazone. It does mean it should be used properly and only when necessary. Anti-inflammatory drugs are meant to be used for a relatively short period of time (days) for acute/new problems or flareups of active problems, for example, when a horse pulls a tendon, has acute laminitis or is worked too hard and an old joint problem becomes obviously worse. Three to seven days is the usual treatment course.
    Fortunately, you have some effective alternatives to dealing with inflammation and acute or chronic pain. Use phenylbutazone for short courses when really indicated, but otherwise try one or more of the following.
    Cold
    Cold is an extremely effective way to block inflammatory reactions in their tracks and also provides pain relief. The feet and lower legs of horses are very tolerant of cold. It can also be used for wounds, stings, bites, etc. on the body.
    For the feet and lower legs, stand the horse in cold running water, a bath of ice water or use ice wraps. To avoid the mess if you don#%92t have ice wraps, place several cotton leg wraps soaked with rubbing alcohol or witch hazel in the freezer and use these after they have super-cooled for an hour or more. (You should change them every 15 to 20 minutes for best effect.) Sore, hot feet can be packed with a poultice that has been chilled in the freezer when you#%92ve finished icing.
    Ice/cool as often as possible and as long as possible for best results. Horses#%92 lower legs have been kept in ice-water baths for one to two days with no ill effects.
    Bandaging
    Have you ever left an emergency room or your doctor#%92s office with a sprain or swollen joint and not had it wrapped? Bandaging helps stabilize the area to prevent extremes of movement, provides mild support and controls swelling. The result is usually an immediate improvement in comfort.
    Problem tendons, ligaments and fetlock joints can be wrapped with regular standing wraps. Knees and hocks can receive some support by using a human elastic or lightweight synthetic knee brace. Adjust the brace so that the hole is positioned over the bony prominence at the point of the hock or in the back of the knee.
    Caution: Do not wrap hot, swollen legs if you are not expert at applying bandages. Uneven pressure can cause serious problems. Always wrap after thoroughly cooling out the area. Braces on knees and hocks should be just snug enough to stay in place and should never leave an indentation on the skin. Wrapped areas should be checked several times a day to make sure the wrap or brace has stayed in place and that there is no swelling of the skin above or below the wrap. If there is a mark on the skin at the edge of the wrap, it#%92s too tight. You should be able to easily insert a fingertip between wrap/brace and skin. If you are unsure, don#%92t use wraps or braces.
    Herbal Alternatives
    A variety of herbs have been used as substitutes for phenylbutazone, aspirin and other anti-inflammatory drugs. For rapid control in acute situations, your best bet is a product with an effective dose of Devil#%92s Claw, such as the liquid B-L Solution, www.equineamerica.com, or the powdered products DC-Y, www.medvetpharm.com, or Devil#%92s Claw Plus from www.uckele.com.
    For long-term control of pain and low-grade inflammation in chronic conditions, try products based on Boswellia, curcumin and ginger like Phyto-Quench, www.uckele.com, or Pain Management, www.platinumperformance.com. These latter products may take longer to reach full effect.
    Topicals
    Use caution with most liniments and rubs because the initial icy feeling quickly gives way to warmth as an irritant effect occurs, which leads to more blood flow and possibly more swelling. When there is evidence of worsening pain and any suspicion of reactivated inflammation, your safest and most effective choice is Sore No More, an Arnica-based liniment in a nondrying, witch hazel base, from www.equilite.com.
    For topical pain/stiffness relief after acute inflammation is controlled, in place of bute try a topical capsaicin cream like Equi-Block, www.donalex.com. Capsaicin works by depleting one of the chemical messengers that cause the sensation of pain. For best results, it should be applied several times daily the first few days.
    Caution: Capsaicin itself causes an unpleasant sensation when first applied, should not be used under wraps and should not be used in acutely inflamed areas.
    For more information on bute, check out www.drugs.com/cons/Phenylbutazone.html


    Most meds like bute will have side effects. You just have to not abuse it.  My horse has ulcers and i use bute when needed.  I also check her blood chemistry's every year.  If you are showing you need to be care with the natural alternatives to bute. Most natural products are illegal on the show circuit.  There is nothing wrong with bute if used correctly under a vets supervision..Just dont abuse it
  • [quote=mare13]

    me again, forgot a couple ?  You Babe-what is OCD?  I know what it is in people but not horses.   Also, anybody know of a horse therapist in Northeast Wisconsin?  Checked the phone book- nothing.  She's just coming 4 and being draft cross I have taken it slow and easy with her- just mostly walk/trot trails with her.  Although I'm sure she could have done something horsin' around in the pasture too.
    Is there anything I can give her for the pain/swelling?  Does anyone recommend a topical something?  Vet's closed til Tuesday- so I'm asking about anything that I can get at Fleet Farm or ?
      oh and hunter seat- LOL- yes I called the vet!    yes, she is (getting) expensive but you know how it is! I sure wouldn't mind the money part if she was getting some relief!


    OCD: http://www.recoveryeq.com/osteochondrosis_horses.htm
     
    more on DOD and OCD:
    http://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/5292.html
  • This is a bit late and I hope your mare is doing better now but here is my two cents:
     
    If your vet suspects founder then cold hosing is not going to do much, horse should have been standing in ice water (30-40 minutes every two-three hours) as soon as founder was suspected.  Why hasn't your vet x-rayed for signs of sinking and rotation?  To make her more comfortable you can cut blocks of 2" foam insulation (the blue stuff) and duct tape them to her feet.  Be sure and pull her shoes if shod before doing this.
     
    If long term use of Bute is a concern for you, ask your vet about a scrip for Equiloxx or the canine version Previcox (which is much cheaper).  It is generally considered to be a much safer NSAID.  Additionally, I would NOT give Dex to a horse that is suspected to have foundered.  Perhaps try some TriHist or Benadryl for the itchiness.  Not sure what is going on with your mare's symptoms but wish you well with her.
     
  • [quote=theoldgreymare]

    This is a bit late and I hope your mare is doing better now but here is my two cents:

    If your vet suspects founder then cold hosing is not going to do much, horse should have been standing in ice water (30-40 minutes every two-three hours) as soon as founder was suspected.  Why hasn't your vet x-rayed for signs of sinking and rotation?  To make her more comfortable you can cut blocks of 2" foam insulation (the blue stuff) and duct tape them to her feet.  Be sure and pull her shoes if shod before doing this.

    If long term use of Bute is a concern for you, ask your vet about a scrip for Equiloxx or the canine version Previcox (which is much cheaper).  It is generally considered to be a much safer NSAID.  Additionally, I would NOT give Dex to a horse that is suspected to have foundered.  Perhaps try some TriHist or Benadryl for the itchiness.  Not sure what is going on with your mare's symptoms but wish you well with her.



    All good questions..hmmm i dont remembering her saying if there were xrays, that is weird if the vet did not take xrays.
     
      We just had the Rep for Previcox into my work.  That looks like some pretty good stuff. We use it on dogs and it seems to be doing pretty well.. I have not tried it for my horse yet tho.
  • Had you by chance dewormed with ivermectin just prior to your horse "not knowing where his feet were"?
     
    What are the current symptoms?  Any fever ever noted? (Though it's easy to miss fever in horses.)  What part of the country are you in?  What feeds and supplements are given?
     
  • Ooh!  What's the scoop on the ivermectin, Ryle?
  • She mentioned that she has some nightshade in her pastures.  And while most horses won't touch it, some do and ingestion of nightshade affects the blood-brain-barrier.  If a horse that ingests nightshade is given ivermectin, it allows the drug to cross the blood-brain-barrier and cause neurological symptoms. 
     
  • Hi everybody, checking back in with an update.  Lilly is doing much better, although still no answer as to what she had!  I kept her in a box stall for several days, continued the cold hosing and bute. I wanted to rest her legs and be sure I knew exactly what she was eating too.   BTW this is the first time she's ever had bute, 5 cc/day -1 week then 10 cc/day- 2 days  til we put her on the dexamethazone (sp?) - 7 days with the dexa stuff, now on day four.   She is no longer lame at all, and the swelling is slowly decreasing.  so yay!!!!  The vet has come down to saying it was all caused by something she ate...but not known what.  She was blood tested for EVERYTHING- no toxic plant, allergy or bug stuff found.  I am wondering about something though...  the neighbor kids go by the horses and I know they have fed or tried to feed them various things.  I have had several lengthy talks with them and their mom that this CANNOT happen (even though I'm sure they meant no harm).  ack!!!   I did find cheese nips and potato peels in the barn one day.  Is it possible that Lilly was fed some strange thing that she could not digest, and that caused all this?  It really bugs me not to know what caused this, as I sure don't want it to happen again.  Thanks
  • I'm so glad she's doing better.  You must feel like a weight has been lifted. 
     
    Great info on the ivermectin, Ryle.  Thanks.  Sounds like that nightshade is some serious stuff.
  • [quote=hunterseat]

    I'm so glad she's doing better.  You must feel like a weight has been lifted. 

    Great info on the ivermectin, Ryle.  Thanks.  Sounds like that nightshade is some serious stuff.


    Yes Nightshade or AKA Belladonna can even be toxic to us.  Some people do use it tho for insomnia bc it makes you relax and sleepy and in large doses you can die bc you just never wake up.