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  • The SHN PAYBACK program is ready to launch the 2010 breeding purchase season on September 1, 2009.

    Already listing over 300 champion stallions of all breeds, mare owners can save 50% on regular stud fees. Breedings are sold on a first-come, first-served basis.

    The 2010 Roster can be seen here:


    Details including money-back guarantee, are available on the PAYBACK website.

    SHN PAYBACK INC. is a 501(c)(5) non-profit.

  • Somebody explain what this is about.  How are they non profit and sell stud services?  No comprendo.   (I didn't check out the link)
  • This is non-profit since 100% of the money raised goes to exhibitors at the Sport Horse National Championships each year. The goal is to reward, improve and encourage the breeding and exhibiting of superior Arabian-bred sport horses.
  • Thanks for the explanation. 
  •   Sounds like an advertisement to me.
  • My question...why do owners of breeds other than arab wish to list their stallions for half price services to raise funds for an arab association? 
    Is this free to the stallion owners? 
    One would think that a stallion cabable of producing competitive offspring would want to attract mares with competitive pedigrees within their own breed.  Just thinking.  Maybe I should take a look at the site to see what is available!
  • CrookedPostQH Foal Total Posts : 16 Reward points : 0 Joined: 8/15/2009 Location: Midwest Status: online Reply to messageMessage Options Re:HALF-PRICED STALLION SERVICES - Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:00 PM My question...why do owners of breeds other than arab wish to list their stallions for half price services to raise funds for an arab association? Is this free to the stallion owners? One would think that a stallion cabable of producing competitive offspring would want to attract mares with competitive pedigrees within their own breed. Just thinking. Maybe I should take a look at the site to see what is available!

    Back from a visit to the website.
    Okay, I must be a QH breed/pedigree snob!  lol  How did that happen?  (Actually, if it whinnies - I can fall in love with it.)
    I took a quick look and found one QH/TB cross and one cremello QH that specified only arab mares. 
    My grandparents stood an arab for maybe 10 years and they would breed him to anything - arabs, QH, appy, grade horses and ponies.  Good thing you could register 1/2 and 1/4 arabs!  They did find a market for arab/welsh crosses.  They were good-minded small horses that made great youth horses.  They also did some crosses that made no sense to me, what I would term negligent breeding practices that resulted in grade horses.
    What is the cremello QH owner thinking?  Well, color for one, but how does his stallion benefit from these foals?  It will not be seen as favorable in the AQHA - absolutely nothing that will promote the stallion's name as a producer of quality, talented offspring.  
    And, the QH/TB stallion?  He's a grade horse!  Or has a new registry sprung up?!
    When our nation has a huge surplus of unwanted horses...why are people breeding mixed breed horses, often for more money than a registered pure-bred can be purchased at auction?  And, I'm not leaving out the people that continue to breed their registered mare.  Good heavens, I can purchase another very well bred horse for a lot less than I can breed my own mare - but I'm not.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  Maybe a view I have not considered?
    Sorry for the long post and rant.  I am on extended sick leave and I literally have nothing better to do except ponder any and all issues facing the horse industry.  lol
  • It was just a matter of time before someone said what most of us were thinking.
    Don't forget, QH/TB's are APPENDIXES!!!!  [8|]  That's a breed, right?  Not to mention American Warmbloods....
  • Actually hunter, I'm not sure what the latest appendix rules for QH or TB are!  I always figured that a TB that was fast in a sprint - it was a QH!  Now, if there is any question of parentage, the owner must pay for a DNA test to prove this horse sired that foal.  And, I wouldn't know what the rules say for embryo transfers or clones, either.  I just haven't kept up on the AQHA rules and court cases.
    My QH mare, according to one "Foundation" QH association, is considered to be 45% TB going back 9 generations, thereby, she does not qualify at their shows!  There is another association for foundation QH that consider certain TBs in the pedigree to be sort of "grandfathered in" such as Three Bars.  When I was a kid, I honestly thought Three Bars was a QH as his name was on most of our horses' papers!  lol  If you just consider cutting or working QHs, my mare's pedigree reads like a who's who for generations.
    I was out of showing for so many years that it was a shock to see solid colored appys in the show ring and painted QHs!  Something that was not allowed in any shape or form during the late 60s and early 70s.
  • OH!  Three bars is what this mare has - grandaughter of, I think!  She was at the hunt club ride last Sunday!!!  And she's OT Appendix.  I was really sort of joking because it seems like a QH/TB is just another cross.  Maybe a nice horse but not a purebred anything. 
  • Very nice looking mare.
    Yeah, the relatively "new" development of the QH as a breed makes them pretty much a mutt!  lol  And, after further refining the horse for the different disciplines provides very different body types across the breed.  Not to say that one type isn't worthy of doing several disciplines, but type will certainly make one discipline easier for a particular horse than another.
    Like my daughter's first cow horse - he's now 18 and retired - is 16.2 hands.  Most people showing in the cow pen have horses much shorter, but he has a lot of "cow" and could get down in the dirt and work.  Her 3 year old she is training may make it to 14.1 or 14.2 - and that is a big maybe.   This one is so calm and quiet almost to the point of being lazy, until you put him on a cow!  Then, he's a dynamo!  Turns back with the cow so fast you have to worry about being left sitting on air.
    While visiting OKC this summer, I went to the big (national?) hunter/jumper show and the difference in body types of the breeds being shown had me fascinated.  Really different from what I am used to looking at.
  • I have an appendix QH mare. She has $2279 in NCHA money.  Had her previous owners who showed her and won the money on her as a 3yr old entered her in cutting classes with AQHA approval, she most likely would've earned her full QH papers.  But as her mother and grandmother (who was sired by a TB) were appendix QH's with huge NCHA earning and no AQHA points (it takes 10 points to earn full papers within the registry), my mare is still an appendix. AQHA doesn't care what success she's had in other venues, beyond listing it as an accomplishment on her show record for Alliance earnings.  The Alliances are between AQHA, NRHA, NRCHA and NCHA.  So at least they've come that far to acknowledge QH's in some of the other venues.  Most ppl go where the money is, and QH's shows pay out in points for the most part.  The World Show has a cash payout, but it's not large like the other associations are. 
  • The QH is a mutt. All horse breeds are mutts (that includes the Arabian). Unless you own a sub-species (which they don't exist anymore) then you own a mutt. The QH/TB stud is apart of the AQHA incentive fund. Not sure what the big deal is of adding more TB into the QH. If there is a registry for the offspring then big deal. Oh, and the warmblood is also a mutt. I laugh that they actually have a Hanovarian registry! I mean COME ON! In Europe a horse will be registered if it fits the regions breed type. You can have a Hanovarian that is also registered as a Dutch Warmblood and a Westifalian (sp?) if it fits breed type. The only difference in the european warmblood and the american warmblood is registry standards and the fact that the American warmblood doesn't have generations of champions and are not as well bred. Don't get me wrong, I really wish that people would be more anal about breeding really common breeds like Arabs, QH, TB, etc. The auction houses and slaughter houses are full of those breeds! Those breeds are so common that it would only make sense to breed them if they were among the top in the breed.