My horse getting more spooky!

Haven't had anything quite as significant as you but I did notice after my gelding turned around 4, he was suddenly more fearful, almost like he had become aware of his mortality or something where before, if I asked him to go somewhere, he just went.... seemed braver.  Now that he's 6, I rarely lunge him anymore but we've had some interesting rides.......
 
Maybe do some exercises w/ the carrot stick/lunge whip and a grocery sack or two tied on the end, having him follow you with it waving above your head, stand facing him and do figure 8's over his head, come in from both sides, etc. so he isn't so flighty.
 
How are his hind legs doing?

In regards to the ditch. While he crossed it prior with no issues, was there water in it then. With all your rain I would imagine it is different now. Horses do not like different.

Our 19 year old gelding still has issues once a year. We figured out his is weather related. It gets cool, he gets spunky. We just have to remind him who the boss is.

We have a 3 yr old gelding that does really great on trails IF another horse is with him. We do not take him far on solo rides. He was funny last year when we were in the woods and he saw ferns blowing in the wind for the first time!

I'm guessing from what you told us that there could be two possiblitys on this.  One is that your timing is just a little off when you are desensitzing him.  This is a very common thing if you arn't use to doing it.  If you are not releasing the pressure at just the right moment you can actually enforce the spooky behavior.  For example you have him in the round pen with an empty plastic bag, he's dancing around you while you wave it around, his feet stop for a second but his body and mind are still in motion and you take the bag away.  Its the pause before the spook.  Wait till his feet stop completely and he does one of several things, stands still for 15 seconds, licks his lips, sighs, blinks or lowers his head or cocks a foot.  This is when to take the pressure off completely and give him a good rub.
 
Two could be that when you are driving him around the pen, or out trail riding you arn't giving him something to focus on and could be driving more than releasing.  In the pen change directions often and when he is doing what you ask with ears to you instead of lookign outside the pen, ask for the stop and give him a good pat.  Not only will this increase his need to look to you for guidence, he will start trusting your instruction when you tell him something isn't going to get him.  On the trail, we have a tendency to think since we rode for 4 hours they should be tired.  NOt so.  If you are on hilly or rocky ground then maybe but if its mild hills and hollers, they don't exert the energy we think they do.  If he has went down the trail but is gawking around instead of watching his feet, give him something to focus on.  Do figure eights around trees at a trot, back him circles around the trees.  Everytime he starts looking around instead of focusing on the trail give his mind something to do like this.
 
I wouldn't worry about the round penning part except to have him use some of that energy up, but keep it controled.  He has to walk when told, lope when asked and trot the rest of the time.  Change directions offten and give him releases when he does it right.  while he is standing there resting, now is the time to introduce anything spooky.  Work on that a while, then go back to having him trot around you.  Its like said before horses don't do change or different well, so we have to help them understand that something different is just something to check out before defeating it. 

@ Dana.....thanks!  Yes he has been better on the "sticking" ...maybe it was a growth spurt?  You are the best for remembering  I do plan on doing the carrot stick and plastic bag work...not this weekend but next.  This weekend I plan on doing more driving and side passing exercises in the arena....along the fence.
 
@ Face - The ditch hasn't changed, but he did pick up hesitation from his buddy horse who never wants to go through.  On our second effort a week later, he did go through after he realized I wasn't going to let him turn his head and walk away.  We moved forward 1 foot at a time, then I would stop him, inch him forward again, then stop, until we finally went through.  Took 15 minutes or so, but very slowly, and confidently I pushed him through.
 
@ Trainer....thanks again for your great advice.  I want you to know that I think I have a great feel and release on time.  I never did release pressure in the round pen when he was trotting as per my voice commands....but I do ask him to change directions often.  We did the same exercises Friday-Sat-Sunday and then took that to the meadow later that afternoon and applied our circles in the meadow.....perfectly!  But he was still a bit spooky here and there....unlike months before.
 
I also have been thinking more about how much freedom I give him on the trail, and allow him to look, and stare at things that make him nervous.  Now I am going to change that and get his mind more back on me instead of letting him build up his anxiety each time he stares at something. 
 
We are practicing lot's of flexing exercises with his head moving laterally...and that is way improving so much that he knows it's coming and just gives his nose to my boot.  I am also thinking that all these arena exercises will be training him to keep on his thinking part of his brain, instead of the reactive side.  Repetition seems to catch on with him very quickly.  So each week, I will introduce one more exercise and see how well he handles the stress on the trail, and get him back to being more calm.  I will do the bags, tarps, and whatever else I can find to hang on a rail, each time we work.  So each time we work in the arena or round pen, I will put something different on the rail, or on the ground, to expose him to different things.......I also want to have my daughter ride her bike around while we follow her on the trail....we do get bikes once in a while and that's what really spooked him last time.
 
So....my weekends for now are going to be Train, Train, Train, then trail.  That's Friday, Saturday, Sunday am, Sunday pm.
 
If there are some good de-spooking exercises that work for you, please share....and if I am on the trail, and he starts to tense up....do you suggest I just do some lateral flexing first, then some backing, or circles if possible?
 
E
 
 

Just a quick update.....
 
I decided to get my *** out of bed early and start working with him more each day.  I saw Clinton Anderson on RFD and heard him say that 15 minutes per day is better than 3 hours on a Sunday.....so I went out this morning, and did some exercises with him....after two days off.
 
He was spooky....poor guy.  We just did some driving exercises, and then I introduced a plastic bag.....that was not a big deal as I am guessing that training has been done before, and it only took 2-3 minutes before he relaxed.  I could tell the memory was kicking in......I can also see that he needs a lot of work doing the plastic bag training, and rubbing it all over, and under etc....
 
I then took out the evil blue tarp and hung it on the arena rail.....oh boy that was a stressful thing to him!  I drove him at the walk back and forth and got closer and closer to it each pass.  I did quit after he finally walked past it instead of speeding up.
 
30 minutes....that was about it.
 
Tomorrow starts the Equine Affaire in Pomona and I noticed Craig Cameron's 11am clinic - How to build a BRAVE horse  right up my alley?????  Yipee!
 
Eric
 
 

Was thinking about going but just got back from a horse convention in Nashville and afraid if I go to the Equine Affaire, I'll find something to spend more money on........ Will miss the Extreme Cowboy race this year, have a Valentine's Dance with hubby which is totally worthwhile too but.......
 
You'll have to let us know anything you learn!

Just came back from Equine Affaire in Pomona and watched Craig Cameron do a 1 1/2 hour clinic on "How to Build a Brave Horse".  He used 4 young horses, and he rode one too.
 
I have some notes which I can share later.....but he basically set up an obstacle course in the arena and had all the horses working together to help each other over the tough ones.
 
The course started with some fencing next to the rail, creating an alley.  He moved the horses through the alley one after another....then all together.....at the jog...working and keeping the tempo very active.  He is was borderline "pushy" on the other riders and kept talking alot about keeping the horses at a strong tempo.
 
After the alley along the rail, there was a tarp on the ground, then in the same line was a bridge.....he approached each obstacle on it's own, and then ultimately put them all together.
 
There were cavelleti's on the ground, followed by two low jumps about 4 strides apart.   And finally, some 55 gallon barrels which were actually the beginning of the line of the alley, tarp, bridge.  So the entire line ended up:  Barrels, alley, tarp, bridge, then a left rounded turn back to the middle of the arena to over the cavelleti's, two low jumps and end.
 
Oh....he also introduce a large round equine rubber ball which he rolled around and had the horses all sniff, put all their noses right up to the ball, lunged his horse from the ground around and around the ball....his horse was definately the most spooky of all of them...but all riders managed to stay on.
 
One question I did not get to ask, was:
 
Once your young horse gets comfortable with all the obstacles, and can relax at the tarp, plastic bag etc......how often do you need to "tune-up" your horse, and until what age can you stop doing this type of training?
 
The answer I got from one trainer there was until they are about 6 years old, they need a constant tune-up, and a reminder of all the scary things you can introduce to them.....also, the time you need to spend with your young horse is very important.
 
The dis-connect I have with my horse was very clear, and that 2 days per week isn't going to cut it with a 4 year old horse.  Another trainer who has a sales barn said to me today, "The most common age of horses for sale is 5 years old".  And that's for the same reasons I am speaking of here....the commitment that young horses need from us!  Where in the manual did it say that?
 
What's really cool about the training I am doing with my horse, is that he comes to me for protection when he relaxes.  He drops his head and snuggles up to my side almost to say, "I am so happy you are here"!  Craig Cameron did say that TRUST is so important, and that the horse has to know you are not going to hurt him.  He never fights with the horse, and he said he stopped fighting with the horse a LONG TIME AGO!  So all of us who think we can whip a horse to move forward, or spur the horse, or kick wildly, I can say that this method is only slowing our training and breaking down the trust relationship that's so hard to build.  And I am seeing that for myself.
 
Can't wait to continue training in the morning  Rain Rain.....stay away!
 
Eric

Well....it's two weeks later and 12 of 14 days of consistent training later. 
 
Just wanted to update that Louis has really improved, and has made very obvious improvements in his character and attitude. 
 
The barn manager said he has noticed a huge difference just the horses attitude coming and going from turnout to stall....visa versa etc.....
 
Anyway....I am also noticing my horse looking to me for approval when I introduce a new object.  So the relationship is nicely building......
 
Really great weekend.
 
Eric
 
PS....new profile picture from the weekend.  Handsome boy I must say!

Hooray for you and Louis!!  That's wonderful that you are seeing results and so is someone else.
 
He looks like he's filling out some.  Whatever happened with his stifle joints?

@Dana - I think he went through a bit of a growing spurt.....I also noticed him grow a bit.....thicker and seems like his whithers raised up a bit too.
 
His patella ligaments still stick once in a while, mostly when he's relaxed and not collecting himself....especially on the downward slopes...but sometimes at the walk too.  I think he's improved, so I am just going to keep exercising him and hope he gets stronger and stronger, and it will just magically disappear! If not, later on we can try some other medical treatments.  I was just thinking last night to have a massage therapist come and look at him...maybe he needs some straightening out....flexing etc.....  Thanks for asking and Happy Valentines Day!

Funny how just when we think they're done, they surprise us.  My guy has decided to have another growth spurt at 6 1/2...... Went on a ride this weekend and someone said Cody would finally have another horse bigger than him because one of the ladies was riding her shire....... guess who was actually taller!?  Sigh....... Cody did really seem interested in this other horse though, like "Wow, I don't feel so big and awkward around this guy."
 
Hope the patellas continue to improve.  Glad he didn't need surgery.  Happy Valentine's to you too!  I'm heading out to give my guys and girl an apple each with their dinner

Just a quick update....and still need some advice.
 
The last 3 weeks have sooooo busy that I have not been able to ride more than twice per week, and that's pretty much all the time I have been able to spend with my horse.  Today with the weather pounding rain, make this week a 1 day deal.
 
Yesterday's ride was just ok, and I sensed my horses nervousness just hanging out with him in his stall! Against my better judgment, I took him out with a couple other horses anyway, and we made it fine.  He did spook three times from the horse horse behind us making a quick move, and he trotted out as a flee reaction.
 
I continue to fear that he's getting worse, not better.  I did notice that when I can work with the horse on consecutive days, he gets better and less nervous...but I don't have the time for such commitment all the time....that's the hard life fact!
 
So....he just turned 5, and I am trying to find someone to ride him 2-3 days per week, and I can continue that momentum and ride Fridays - Sundays.
 
I am also thinking of sending him away for full training, but scared that the lack of consistency when he gets back will wear off like this last year since I had bought him and he was so much more confident.
 
At what age should I expect him to no longer digress?
 
E

My horse is very spooky compare to any other horse because of he eat again and again.
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James

It's hard to say when a horse won't regress anymore.  I think it depends a lot on personality of the horse.  My daughter's gelding, a paint is more sensitive, flinchy than the others and this year at 9, he is really settling in.  My Cody, was maybe less spooky at 3-4 and now at 6 is more spooky but maybe that's partly because I take him more places?  He doesn't need to be lunged anymore now, can sit in the pasture for the week and I can get him out and although he feels pretty good, he won't buck me off   It takes alot of wet saddle blankets to get some horses to settle down and trust you.  Sure is hard to ride consistently several times a week and work to make the $ you need to have the horse, isn't it?  Our weather hasn't been consistently cooperative either, has it?  Hang in there!