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re training -starting all over

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re training -starting all over
  • hello agin,  i am still very wary of my mare after the biting incident i spoke of before. i always carry my trainging whip now. but as of this date no new incidents. i want her to respect me but not fear me. in the same i do not want to have to fear her either. i still havent gotten to work with her much lately even though i have been laid off from work now for 3 months. either weather is always bad or something. so now the weather is improving alot here-has been windy though alot and i do not attempt to do much with my mare as she is  very jumpy and skittish when it is windy.
     
    any way i thought  about it and am not sure what approach to take-i beleive to start over is the thing- i know to work with her on  certain  aspects and some i am not sure of. such as do i start her on the bridle before she is ridden-never have bridled her before-she even wears a large type dog collor deal as she has had trouble with all her halters rubbing her face raw. so bridleing before riding ?
     
    how do i teach her to respect my space? does  her turning her rump to me mean she is wanting to kick? all kinds of questions here for proper ground work. ive lost my colt not knowing  what i should have done right so now i am second guessing everything. plus also from getting  poor advice  on the colt issue about his care prior to death i am not sure what to beleive and who to listen to.
     
    i know some of my horses problems are due to me allowing her to regress. somethings she made alot of progress with-at least for her and somethings were never even an issue. so where do i start?
    i have seen clinton anderson on tv-seems to know his stuff and i know there are some dvds and books i can get-but right now i am totally broke-due to loss of my job. so is there some free sources or advice i can try? any ideas and info will be appreciated. i especially like to hear from hunterseat. hope you can understand my  thoughts here. ask me if not and i will try and explain better. basically i was thinking starting over on what little bit weve done was the way to go-just not sure what and where to start .thanks all.annie234.
  • GURL!  I wish you had someone to help you!  You'll be logging on here saying "well I've got broken bones and stitches now..." 
    Not trying to be funny AT ALL.  It worries me.   BUT, I don't think you should think that far ahead. (bridling)  If you made progress at all then I doubt she's really regressed completely.  Might just need a little reminder.  The training stick isn't making her fear you, imo.  Rub her with it so it feels good.  Having a back leg doesn't make her fear another horse but she knows that horse can use it if she doesn't watch herself.
    I'm not a trainer so there are people who will give you better advice.  (like get rid of the horse)  You seem bent on keeping her - I'm not saying that's wrong but don't go past your comfort zone.  Just take it slow and be consistent and gain her trust.  If you get to the point that she's listening to you, is confident around you, and isn't a danger to you (and I'd still never turn your back on her - just cuz she's a horse) then you've probably gained a lot of ground.  Just spend this season with her doing ground stuff and gaining your own confidence.   Take her for walks if you feel confident after a while.  Set up some "obstacles" to step over and get her thinking.  Very small strides.  You're in no hurry and it sounds like you haven't totally figured out her mind yet. 
    Keep watching all the trainers you can and just take bits and pieces - don't try too much!!   Just be sure you understand exactly what they're doing before you try it. 

    I wish I was more help. 

  • hunterseat, you are a big help to me. i think some of my problem is "my" problem is that i have lost some confidence and perhaps i have let her scare me a bit. things have happened in my personal life toothat has me second guessing alot of things these days.(lost my job and cant find work at all it seems then the colt dying and some other  hard things going on) so that may be some of it
     i have had the mare for  almost a year and 4 months. she is smart and gets some stuff really quickly. i can  curry,pick her front feet. rub her with the training stick. lead-tie  her.diffrent things' she is kinda jumpy latley and had been better of that. she isnt afraid of loud noise or gun shots near her.is very jumpy fro t he wind blowing though. she is just pushy for the most part-like trying to crowd you or bumping you as she is in a hurry to get to the feed. i (or my husband)always have some type of daily interactions with her even if it is to just feed and pet her a bit.
    she seems to do best if i just put a lead rope on her and make her stand still and allow me to work with her a bit. she seems to realize ok now its time to do some work(or whatever she considers it) so i must endure. she may try and walk away but i just bring her back. try to repete anything she has troubles with. i figured maybe short lessons for now and starting out and keeping it slow. and i never turn my back on her-or any horse-never have no matter how sweet they are.
    i do worry about my husband-he has a side which  he doesnt see from and i am always warning him he must  watch her closer because of it.she has slung her head around at times and hit us with her head hard-almost knocked me out once. but i realize she didnt mean to do that. is this something she can learn not to do? by  teaching her to respect  our space.?
    and i do feel i want to keep her. she is my 1st horse and i feel i havent even scratched the surface really with her. i dont want to call her dangerous or too much for me and just get rid of her with out really trying to understand her. i feel she can be a good horse if we can both get through our issues.and i hope i can be good for her too. i dont let company pet her now either.after the biting incident- i try to keep others away from her except us.although my husband allowed his friend to feed her tobacco. i keep telling him-no treats  by hand-at all.i dont even take her a carrot/apple/treats  now.unless it is part of her daily feedings. if i do at some point feel she is more than i can really hadle-and is dangerous i will let her go. but i really think she is worth the effort and we can work together and see how it goes for a while. so i am gonna try and  start slow.. any new thoughts let me know. thanks for the reply and advice. i will be very careful. annie234.
  • Hi Annie,
     
    You talked about Clinton Anderson and I have just bought one book and have another on order but since you can't afford to buy any I have found training videos on line. Larry Trocha (SP) is one and then there is another guy too. Google horse training and see what comes up. I Googled Training a reining horse and found several short video's that were helpful.
     
    Meanwhile you need to make her give you your space. My trainer said that while walking or standing just hit her with your elbow in the shoulder area. This is what horses do to each other out in the field to establish the pecking order, or a mare will do to her colt as well.
     
    I wouldn't play with her at all, I would make it all business when you are around her and as the other poster said, take her for walks and such to develope a bond as well as respect.
     
    Of course I am one to talk since my mare is a handful as well.
  • There are a lot of utube horse training videos available.  Here is a link to a Monty Roberts Join Up one you may find interesting.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dx91mH2voo
    Of course, you must weed out the junk as with any website.
    Sometimes asking too many people is as confusing as asking no one.  Is there an experienced horse person in your area that could show you a few basics?  A lot of horse people (I'm not talking about professional trainers, but knowledgeable people) come to the aid of another for low cost, even free because they don't want to see someone get hurt.
    It's hard for anyone to tell you exactly where to start without a specific question and specific examples of your mare's behavior.
    You want her to give you space?  First watch the video to the link I enclosed.  With a lounge line, gently ask her to move away from you.  Repeat this several times daily, till she equates the movement of your hands with the movement of the lounge line as a shooing gesture.
    When she is on the lead or on cross-ties, also ask her to move away from you by pushing on her.  Is this something she already knows or does she push her weight back into you?  Getting her to move a step to the side with a slight push is another important aspect of asking for your space.  Horses pick this up rather quickly with daily practice.
    You ask about putting the bridle on.  Yes, by all means do as much as you can from the ground before getting on her back.  Bridle her and ask her to bend her head and neck whichever direction you pull on the reins.  Does she do this easily or is it a tug of war?  Be gentle.  Ask gently but firmly.  And remember to use pressure on the reins as if you were on top of her even if you happen to be standing next to her (slightly down and back toward her shoulder).
    You will get better results from this forum, I believe, by asking specific questions (ie. when I do this my mare does that, what can I do?).
    And I read your other post about your colt.  I'm sorry you had to experience that.  I agree with someone else that wrote that there was probably other things wrong with the foal and it was not your fault.  I know it doesn't make the pain any easier, but what is going to happen will, in the end.  Learn from the past, but look to the future.
    Take care and good luck.
  • I'm not advocating any one trainer over another but this trainer, Sylvia Scott,  lets you contact her through email and ask questions.  She usually emails you back in a day or so.  She also has a Q & A section so you can read about issues other people are having that might be similar to yours.  She's really helped me out in the past.  http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/TrainingTips.html
     
    I admire you for really trying to do things right and wish we could help you more.  Hang in there and goodluck!
  • I do not understand why people who have never had horses insist on getting horses that would make seasoned trainers think twice.
  • Ahhhh, AllieBaba, if they knew about horses, they probably wouldn't have gotten that one.  We all started somewhere once.  Let none of us forget that.
  • allie baba, i dont really understand your reply to my post. i dont think i have a bad horse. or a horse that is any more dangerous than any other horse could be. if i gave that impression it was"nt what i meant to do. she did   kick me once when i was taking a large heavy ice ball from her tail and i hurt her by pulling the hairs in her tail by being in a hurry. she kicked just enough to let me know i hurt her. proabably an instant reaction on her part. true she should'nt have kicked but i should'nt have  been in such a hurry-my lack of judgement i feel partly caused it.   also there was the biting incidents which i still am not sure about.
    but are'nt these things sometimes normal behavior for horses who arent yet well trained and perhaps some that are? and does'nt each horse person and each horse have to start somewhere.?  i guess we all learn from  experiance. how else can we?
    also i did not choose the horse. my husband bought her with out my knowledge because he knew i wanted a horse. i came home and there she was. it was'nt like i could send her back as the owners were moving then and i did'nt want to send her back and still dont. true i am new at this but  you gotta start somewhere. i dont beleive she is that bad. just untrained and let go  too long after i did make some headway with her before. but that is my fault not hers. i made some head way with her before i allowed her to lag on that but that was my  misjudgement and inexperiance there. i know better now. but i dont feel she is that bad of a horse.  thanks annie.
  • thanks all for the  advice and ideas i appreciate it and any other insights or comments. annie.