Rescue horse HELP- doesn't like a loving touch, ears pinned back, etc. - Western Training & Behavior - Western Training & Behavior - Horse Community, Horse Pictures, Horse Forum and Information

Posted : 3/11/2013 8:15:00 PM

Let me start by saying I had written an ENTIRE post, clicked preview, my screen locked up and it was completely lost - - I am seriously SICK! SO, this post will be nowhere near as descriptive and loving as my first one was - - let me say: I#%92m falling in love with this horse! (I#%92m so cranky about everything being lost you might not feel ‘love#%92 oozing from this post!!!)

I brought home my first ‘rescue#%92 horse about a month ago, completely on accident. We went to purchase a welsh pony for our kids (I swore I#%92d never own a pony…eating crow). While there the owner told us about a ‘poor#%92 horse she#%92d picked up but was unable to feed/care for any longer. She said she#%92d be willing to sell her to us. When she walked her out I almost cried. She was bones and skin. I don#%92t know if she#%92d just been trying to starve her to death, or what, and frankly I didn#%92t care because I couldn#%92t leave this poor creature there. I foolishly PAID money (not much) and loaded her in to our trailer not knowing if she would even make the ride home.

Her eyes were so clear and sweet and seemed to speak to me. The next day I went down to the barn eager to make a new friend. Looking back all I can do is giggle. She didn#%92t want a ‘friend#%92, just food! Here are my problems (again, summarized as I#%92m too tired to type them all out again!): -

She hates my touch. I can approach her very slowly and allow her to check my hand out and very gently touch her neck, rub her back, scratch underneath her neck…it doesn#%92t matter. She doesn#%92t like it. If she#%92s not wearing her halter she will immediately walk away. If she#%92s on her halter she will ever so slowly step away from me, unless I have her held so tightly she cannot get away, and when that happens she#%92ll pin her ears back, get wide-eyed and appear as if she#%92s 1 second away from having a melt down.

-She constantly has her ears back…and I don#%92t mean like she#%92s listening to something behind her. They#%92re always pinned at me (at least 80% of the time). The same way ears have been on my other horses when they#%92ve bit me! THAT pinned back look

-She likes treats but because she was SO underweight I#%92ve limited horse cookies to only a few at a time….because of the treats she will come up to me, eagerly search my hands and pockets and when she finds nothing start to nibble on my hands that almost borderline starts to bite. I#%92ve met those nibbles with a firm no and swat to her neck, which sends her away.

How should I handle these extra hard “nibbles”? -She doesn#%92t like ANY affection. No brushing, no stroking, no rubbing, no braiding of her mane..nothing. -When she doesn#%92t get her way she turns her back side to me (or my husband) and gives me the impression if I stood there long enough she might kick. I#%92ve not stood long enough to find out. Am I missing a cue? Is her turning her back on me (but with her butt right up to me) telling me something?

This poor lady has had a rough life and I KNOW this. I can see AND feel a permanent indentation in her nose from where she wore a halter for way too long….I#%92m assuming one had grown in to her nose at one time. She also had white spots on her back from where I#%92m assuming a saddle has rubbed.

What do I do to get through to her? Is it possible to teach her to like a loving touch? What do you think about her ears constantly being pinned back? How about her backing herself up to me when she doesn#%92t get her way? (This has happened when I won#%92t give any more treats, when I was working with the pony, etc).

I want to trust this sweet Mare and I want her to trust me. I want to give her what she needs, but also don#%92t want to start out doing the wrong things and confuse her. Any horses I#%92ve ever had have trusted me and trusted Human#%92s for that matter…I#%92m at a loss. I#%92ve never been around a horse like this! I#%92m falling in love with what I know she could be.

About 2 weeks ago she Colicked, so I spent an entire evening and most of the early hours of the morning walking her in circles. Luckily she made it through. Since our night walking in circles I felt like we bonded. Now when I walk down to the barn she lets out the sweetest whinny that melts my heart….she doesn#%92t do this for my husband…yet she still does the same nonsense with pinning her ears back, etc. Why won#%92t she let me in to her heart?!?!

Lyndeeboo

Posted : 3/11/2013 8:19:01 PM

UGH! I apologize for it all running together - - not sure how to fix that!!!

michellechic07

Posted : 3/11/2013 10:39:14 PM

I think horses are the same as us kids/people who have been abused and forgotten about or bounced around from foster home to foster home. Right now she is to scared to let you into her heart because she does not want to be hurt again when the last person neglected her. She will throw you all she has and test you to see if you'll still love her at her worst ( i did this as a child). Getting her to open up WILL NOT happen in a few weeks. It will take time. She knows you helped her thru the collic and she is greatfull for that...but she is not totally ready to let you it. Give it time. She will come around. She already has. Tell your husband to keep up on loving her as well. (although sometimes some horses will never like men) Keep up the good work. Give her words of encouragement and loves. She will come around and open up. She has been thru a lot. Give her time.

danastark

Posted : 3/12/2013 12:24:40 AM

While it is terrible that someone starved her, you need to not feel so sorry for her if she is pinning her ears back or turning her rear to you....... this is horse body language for dominating you. Likely it has worked before to make people back off. Horses live in a heirarchy and you need to be boss and not sympathize so much. She is getting enough to eat and drink and you need to get her respect or she will hurt you. My horses all love the gelding who is boss of the herd. He is a benevolent ruler and doesn't bother them unless they threaten his dominance, then he is quick to launch at them, teeth bared or kicking and clear about where they are in the herd. He makes them run away from him, then stops and gets on with his life.

Your mare should NEVER pin her ears or turn her rear to you in disrespect. You can't work her very hard at this point but she obviously feels good enough to try to dominate you at this point. A good website to teach you how to gain her respect is Sylvia Scott, in Virginia. She is really good about answering questions and has a website that has other people's problems and her answers to browse through. Disrespect is a common issue so you could read up on what to do.

Bless you for saving her but be careful!

hunterseat

Posted : 3/12/2013 7:57:15 AM

Starvation will mess up an animal's head but thank goodness she gets a chance for a life with you!! I'll post more another time.

jungle_cat

Posted : 3/12/2013 10:24:14 AM

I'm so happy to hear you are willing to help this mare and give her the chance she needs!

With that said - I agree with danastark. She is still a horse and is now a horse with her basic needs being met. I've worked with several neglected horses in the past and one of the best things you can do for them is become a clear leader. It really helps build their confidence in you. Don't let her get away with pinning ears or trying to turn her rump to you - those are habits that can lead to extremely dangerous habits in the future.

One thing you may want to look into is the Marv Walker Bonder. If you go to his website and e-mail him he will send you a link that explains how to do it step by step and what to expect. It is an excellent way to get that leadership established in a way that is not harsh and it will help your relationship tremendously.

But one thing you may want to keep in mind is that some horses will never be "touchy feely" and crave human touch. Sometimes they change and do love it, but sometimes its just their nature. Be prepared if that is the case. These horses learn to tolerate human touch for basic things like grooming, but that can sometimes be the extent of it. But we as humans have to learn to accept them for who they are and enjoy what they can offer us.

One other comment on the "nibbling" when giving treats. I would stop that right now as well. If a horse is gentle about taking treats they get fed from my hand, but if I have one that starts getting nippy and they aren't listening to my body language to back off (typically a problem I've had with previously starved horses or haflingers - both are highly food driven) then they get fed treats from a bucket. or pan They still know its coming from you, but it takes the risk of your fingers out of the equation. Saw someone missing the tip of her index finger from an overzealous horse going after a treat and I tend to like to keep my digits.

Lyndeeboo

Posted : 3/15/2013 6:46:16 PM

[quote=michellechic07]

I think horses are the same as us kids/people who have been abused and forgotten about or bounced around from foster home to foster home. Right now she is to scared to let you into her heart because she does not want to be hurt again when the last person neglected her. She will throw you all she has and test you to see if you'll still love her at her worst ( i did this as a child). Getting her to open up WILL NOT happen in a few weeks. It will take time. She knows you helped her thru the collic and she is greatfull for that...but she is not totally ready to let you it. Give it time. She will come around. She already has. Tell your husband to keep up on loving her as well. (although sometimes some horses will never like men) Keep up the good work. Give her words of encouragement and loves. She will come around and open up. She has been thru a lot. Give her time.

Thank you for the reply! I'm not going to give up on her ':)'

[quote=danastark]

While it is terrible that someone starved her, you need to not feel so sorry for her if she is pinning her ears back or turning her rear to you....... this is horse body language for dominating you. Likely it has worked before to make people back off. Horses live in a heirarchy and you need to be boss and not sympathize so much. She is getting enough to eat and drink and you need to get her respect or she will hurt you. My horses all love the gelding who is boss of the herd. He is a benevolent ruler and doesn't bother them unless they threaten his dominance, then he is quick to launch at them, teeth bared or kicking and clear about where they are in the herd. He makes them run away from him, then stops and gets on with his life.

Your mare should NEVER pin her ears or turn her rear to you in disrespect. You can't work her very hard at this point but she obviously feels good enough to try to dominate you at this point. A good website to teach you how to gain her respect is Sylvia Scott, in Virginia. She is really good about answering questions and has a website that has other people's problems and her answers to browse through. Disrespect is a common issue so you could read up on what to do.

Bless you for saving her but be careful!

Thank you SO much...I was worried that these were signs she was trying to dominate me. I guess I've been blessed this far along to not encounter a horse like this. She definitely is feeling MUCH better. The day we got her she was a bag of bones and VERY submissive....I have to think she was so starved and dehydrated she was too weak to fight. Within a few days however, she started to perk up and within a week and a half she started with pinning her ears at me. I didn't think any of it was okay, yet was still trying to win her trust and thought I was maybe overreacting to her body language. My husband kept telling me when I would question her actions that I was being too paranoid and she just needed time to get used to me. As time has gone on she's done it more and more. I am definitely off to check out Sylvia Scott's website, thank you for the suggestion. One of the other ladies suggested another site that I will also check out. As much info as I can get about how I need to act and react is what I want! While I want this mare to know she's cherished and loved, I am not about to let her purposely bite or kick me without TRYING to stop it before it happens!
Thank you for the reply!!!

Lyndeeboo

Posted : 3/15/2013 6:56:28 PM

[quote=hunterseat]

Starvation will mess up an animal's head but thank goodness she gets a chance for a life with you!! I'll post more another time.

Looking forward to hearing back from you. I agree, never had a starved horse and she is something else ':)'

[quote=jungle_cat]

I'm so happy to hear you are willing to help this mare and give her the chance she needs!

With that said - I agree with danastark. She is still a horse and is now a horse with her basic needs being met. I've worked with several neglected horses in the past and one of the best things you can do for them is become a clear leader. It really helps build their confidence in you. Don't let her get away with pinning ears or trying to turn her rump to you - those are habits that can lead to extremely dangerous habits in the future.

One thing you may want to look into is the Marv Walker Bonder. If you go to his website and e-mail him he will send you a link that explains how to do it step by step and what to expect. It is an excellent way to get that leadership established in a way that is not harsh and it will help your relationship tremendously.

But one thing you may want to keep in mind is that some horses will never be "touchy feely" and crave human touch. Sometimes they change and do love it, but sometimes its just their nature. Be prepared if that is the case. These horses learn to tolerate human touch for basic things like grooming, but that can sometimes be the extent of it. But we as humans have to learn to accept them for who they are and enjoy what they can offer us.

One other comment on the "nibbling" when giving treats. I would stop that right now as well. If a horse is gentle about taking treats they get fed from my hand, but if I have one that starts getting nippy and they aren't listening to my body language to back off (typically a problem I've had with previously starved horses or haflingers - both are highly food driven) then they get fed treats from a bucket. or pan They still know its coming from you, but it takes the risk of your fingers out of the equation. Saw someone missing the tip of her index finger from an overzealous horse going after a treat and I tend to like to keep my digits.

Thank you for the suggestion of contacting Mary Walker Bonder. I will do that as soon as I finish this reply. I'm okay with her not ever "loving" me rubbing on her (even though she's crazy--my touch is the bomb diggity! haha!) but for her to not allow me to groom her doesn't work for me....she has dreadlocks! The pinning of the ears and her turning her rear to me didn't seem 'okay' but like i said, I'd never experienced it before so didn't know if I just wasn't used to her body language (and that this was no biggie) or if it WAS a big deal...so thankful for you all taking the time to confirm what I was thinking. Now I just need to learn how to react to it and let her know that her dominant rein is over and I'm in charge...oh how much easier that is said than done! I'm not normally a dominant person!
I will also start implementing treats out of a dish...maybe that will let her know to not be so demanding about them.
When you say don't let her get away with pinning her ears....any suggestions on how to get her to straighten them out?!?! Or will that come with time once I start her 'new life'?
Thanks so much everyone!!!!

hunterseat

Posted : 3/15/2013 9:40:18 PM

Perelli teaches a game called "hide your hiney" with horses. Doesn't take long to get that backend moved!! Again - I'm at work. Will be posting again, since you reminded me sometime this weekend!

danastark

Posted : 3/16/2013 6:15:33 AM

If you watch horses together, the followers rarely lay their ears back at the leader, they keep their eyes on the leader and ears pointed forward, rear turned away. Once you have her attention, her respect, she will stop pinning her ears back. She's feeling you out but when you make it clear that you are the boss, she will stop.

We have a pony who was abused and it took about a year or so before he really relaxed when we touched him. Now he's a big mush, at least until the vet or farrier come, then he reverts back to his fearful state.

She is a lucky girl now, obviously feeling better ':)'

Connie.Weirick

Posted : 3/29/2013 1:56:08 AM

She's blessed to have you. Our eldest was a hard keeper w/ messed up hips, bad hoofs, spooky, and defiant. I just sat with him every day, and advanced slowly. Yet w/ DD who was 9, we was a pussycat. Diff horse today.

Magic Mare

Posted : 4/4/2013 4:30:53 PM

Thank you for adopting her. I work with rescues and her behavior is not all that unusual. I know you want to love her and have her love you but it will take time. Lots of time and tons of patience. I wouldn't hand feed her any more treats but rather put them in a feed tub. We totally discourage hand feeding at our barn because it almost always leads to nipping. If you hold her tightly that only reinforces her fear that something bad will happen to her. When we have a rescue like yours we just spend a lot of time with them and often just hanging out with them so they get used to non-threatening humans. I agree that she is trying to dominate you so try not to put yourself in a position where you could be harmed. She's still working out her place in your barn. Just give her time and tons of love. Hang out with her and don't try to force her into anything that makes her uncomfortable. She'll come around. Just hang and chill with her.

DarkSerendipity

Posted : 4/10/2013 8:42:48 PM

That's awesome that you got her out of that situation! Be very proud of yourself.
However, I do agree with danastark - she does need leadership and guidance. I wouldn't work her too hard, but I would start studying and using the principle methods of Clinton Anderson and/or Pat Parelli. Start with the foundation groundwork, and as she gets healthier, you can make the lessons more difficult. But that respect and leadership has to be established first. Pinning her ears, whirling her tail and/or turning her hindquarters toward you, bumping into you, they're all signs of dominance that she knows she can get away with.
Good luck and keep us updated on how she's doing!