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Vertical Flexion Help!

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Vertical Flexion Help!
  • Ok so I have been working with Gunner on lateral flexion and he has gotten it down great! We have done a lot of circle work, figure 8's and serpentines and he has really caught on well. His head has dropped a lot, he turns his nose to the inside when asked, the whole shebang. I have been working on his backing as well, when I got him he wouldn't even take a step back at all. I sit deep in the saddle, squeeze with my calves and pull back with the reins with steady pressure till he steps back and then I release and ask for 2 steps, release then 3 steps and so on. At first, he didn't understand why I was squeezing with my calves but sitting in the backing position. He tried moving forward, tried putting his head up in the air, tried shaking his head back and forth before he finally got that I wanted him to back up. He is getting pretty good at it now, and has a lot of impulsion when I ask, which I really like.
     
    Now I am starting to introduce him to vertical flexion but we are having some issues. I taught him vertical on the ground, even though we took two laps around the entire arena before he stopped moving backwards and broke at the poll. Second time I asked we took yet another lap around the arena before he broke at the poll. He finally got it and stopped backing up all together when I asked, lowered his head and broke at the poll really nice. We repeated it about a 100 times over the last couple days. Now we are to the point of the standing vertical under saddle and he is just not getting it. He keeps backing and backing and backing. I am nutural in my seat position, instead sitting back and deep so he don't think I am asking him to back and I am not putting any pressure with my calves or thighs but he is still backing up. Should I just keep asking till he stops his feet? I tried backing him up to a barn wall and then ask for him to break at the poll and to give vertically, and he just turns away from the wall backwards and continues backing. I even tried it in a L shaped corner so he would have to rotate quite a bit to continue backing but he does it anyways. FLUSTERATING! Any ideas? Should I just move on to the walk? I really don't want to but maybe he would understand it more?
     
    Once and if I get him giving vertically and breaking at the poll at a stand still, I will do it at a walk and work my way up to a canter. Sitting up straight, pressure with my thighs and calves and steady pressure with the reins till he gives vertically, then ill release the pressure instantly, give him loose rein and repeat. Correct? When we do circle work, he collects pretty well, nice head set, brings his nose to the inside, impulsion from his hindquarters, well rounded and feet under him BUT in a straight-away hes back to being strung out, okward and sloppy; so that is why I want to teach him vertical flexion to master his straight-aways for the most part.
     
    Am I doing this all correctly? If not please tell me what I should be doing!
  • Correctly?  hmm...  I've come to realize there are so many ways to train I could never tell anyone if that's correct or not.  Plus I'm not a trainer but I do feel like I'm going to end up working with Dani myself...  probably... not definitely.  ANYWHO.... I wonder if he'd do better learning the whole "flexing a the poll" thing from the ground.  I do encourage (again) the bitting process.  These folks deal specifically with OTTB's and OTSB's but this seems valuable for any horse.  It worked like magic with Zag and it involves breaking at the poll in a way. 
    http://www.horseadoption.com/part-2-bitting/
  • Hunter, he already knows how to flex his head each way perfectly and he will now break at the poll on the ground well. He is just having a hard tim relating it to doing it under saddle. I do not own a caveson and do not know of anyone who does. It is a good idea, but then again, the way I train is, letting the horse have immediate release of pressure after he gives to the bit or breaks at the poll. if I had him tied in a pen with his reins tied back and made him break at the poll, he would have no release of pressure until I went back in there 30 mins later or whenever and untied it.  (which is what I feel the horse learns from is the release of pressure not the pressure itself)  I have herd of this method but don't find it effective for the way I am training Gunner. Not that is isn't effective but it is something I avoid for that reason.
  • I think you missed the point, but I might be wrong.  The horse breaks at the poll and gets his own release from pressure by doing so.  They "teach themselves".  And it helps horses who have been trained on the bit to get off the bit, too.   Zag stood tied at the trailer.  I used his bridle with two leadropes tied to the girth.  It worked really well.  I didn't tie him with much pressure, either.  I don't think it takes much. 
     
     
  • [quote=hunterseat]

    I think you missed the point, but I might be wrong.  The horse breaks at the poll and gets his own release from pressure by doing so.  They "teach themselves".  And it helps horses who have been trained on the bit to get off the bit, too.   Zag stood tied at the trailer.  I used his bridle with two leadropes tied to the girth.  It worked really well.  I didn't tie him with much pressure, either.  I don't think it takes much. 




    That's similar to what I do.  Except instead of leaving them to stand there I'll free lunge in the round pen for a bit as well.  Seems to work pretty well.