Friends mare: picking up feet issues; could get dangerous! - Western Training & Behavior - Western Training & Behavior - Horse Community, Horse Pictures, Horse Forum and Information

Posted : 5/23/2011 10:55:05 PM

Friday evening my friend had her horse retrimmed and shoed and it took the poor shoer 4 hours to get her feet done. Salty is a AQHA registered 9 year old flea bitten grey mare. She has had this horse for about 3 months and this was the first time she has delt with the shoer since my friend has owned her, she was shoed when she bought her. Back feet she was great, front feet, and she would strike out every single time the shoer tried to trim her hooves and really started misbehaving when he went and started nailing her shoe on. Would do little rare-ups when he held on to her foot to get away. Both front feet she will do this. Never had a problem with cleaning her feet out but now she has developed a habit with striking out forward everytime you try to pick up either of her front feet. Wasn't even allowing you to clean them?!

My friend asked for my help and of course me just being me, I told her to rule out any sorta pain, call her vet or ill have my vet come take a look at her. So today, her vet came out and looked her over, nothing seemed to be wrong that he could see, feel or anything like that. So after ruling out pain or all; I went out and started my afternoon with trying to help and fix this behavior before it got someone hurt.

I took her in the arena and started lounging her both ways then i stopped her, picked up her back feet, she did great, I pet her and then I went to her left front. She struck out right off the bat, and i held on and said "Whoa" she did it again but the second time she rared up so I right away, made her do laps at a canter, for about a minute or so, pulled her back in (she licked her lips a little) and I picked up the foot again, at first she didn't do it so I took a hoof pick, cleaned it out a bit and put it back down. Pet her and told her good girl. Went to the right front, same thing so again we went around and around, picked it up again, cleaned it out and put it back down, pet her ect ect. Went back to the left front, picked it up, pet her leg and around her hoof, talked to her a bitand then i took my hand and sorta lightly tapped on it a little and BOOM, struck out again so once again we did more laps then tried again. Took about 30 mins and she wasnt trying it hardly at all and each time she did we did laps. Using the method "making the wrong thing hard, and the right thing easy" she behaved, she got to stand and get made over, if she wanted to strike out, she got worked. I only held her foot about 10 seconds at a time, and got to the point where I could tap on the shoe part with my hand farly hard and she stood quiet with both feet. So I called it a day.

I want to help my friend out and her horse because the shoer was very tired, hands where literly bloody, sore and he asked her to work with her horse before he had to try again because he said if she pulls this again, he will either bute her, tie her leg up or throw her and I don't want any of the 3 to have to occur. Ill work with her again tomorrow and see if I cant work my way up to a small hammer and just tap around with that. She learned very quick that her striking out would mean she would have to work on the line, and when she stood still, it was a good thing with plently of praise.

Sorry this was so long but I am a detailed women. Anything else I can use to help her get more acustom to her front feet being messed with before the shoer comes again? Any other methods what would help? Am I on the right track here?

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2011 12:13:37 AM

Amazing farrier that he went so far and is willling to come back at all!
You're a good friend to put in so much time helping. Sounds like you're moving in the right direction! I bet she's got memories of pain, don't you think? Glad you're helping her. Might be why the last people got rid of her.

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 5/24/2011 1:27:43 AM

[quote=hunterseat]

Amazing farrier that he went so far and is willling to come back at all!
You're a good friend to put in so much time helping. Sounds like you're moving in the right direction! I bet she's got memories of pain, don't you think? Glad you're helping her. Might be why the last people got rid of her.

Not sure, I feel that the last owner let her get away with being pushy. But honestly, today wasn't really that bad, yes she struck out but once she was corrected, she caught on to what I ment super fast and knows that she wont be able to get away with it. She never once tried to hurt me and didn't at all, just wanted to getr away. You might be correctI really do think it might be pain a farrier or shoer in her past has caused because she was not like this before the farrier came, she had no problem with her feet; however we never tried running nails though her hoof either, but you catch my drift. It shouldn't be a reason to get rid of a horse by any means unless it is something that a inexpierenced owner can not handle and in that case, try to find someone to help. She bought her for $1600 and besides being a tad pushy, she is a amazing ride, however she don't really like my friends yellow lab, she thinks he is okward lol. He always pops out of places at odd moments and spooks her but besides that she is great! Ok I am rambling HA!

face

Posted : 5/24/2011 9:00:30 AM

Most issues horses have are people related.

Your method of teaching her sounds good. Need to keep doing it over and over again and at some point get your friend to take over that training so it isn't something the mare does just for you. When the farrier comes next time you should do a little practice before he arrives and be prepared to do a little bit once he arrives if she acts up.

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 5/24/2011 5:01:24 PM

[quote=face]
Most issues horses have are people related.

Yes, I 110% agree with you on that! We have about a month and a half to work on this issue; until the farrier comes back. I want to get her to where she isn't doing it at all with me and I can eventually tap tap tap on her shoe with a small hammer and she stands quietly. Today I didn't have much time to work her but I ended up doing it anyways. She at first struck out when I went to pick up her left front and I said "NO!" in a firm and tall voice, she tried it again with a little rare attached, I lost her foot and she automaticly knew she was in trouble. We went around a couple more times then usual, both directions and then tried it again. She was perfect and didn't try it anymore till I pulled my pliers out on my back pocket and tapped them on her shoe. She rared compleatly up like she was doing with the shoer and I said "NO!" again and so we went around and around, switched directions, I made her go into a canter, switched directions again and then pulled her in and said "WOHA"! she licked her lips and continued to lick and chew as I picked up her foot and tapped it again with my pliers. She hesatated if a breaf second by tensing up the leg, I held onto it and said "whoa", she relexed and I tap tap taped a little more then set it down. She was still licking and chewing and looked pretty relaxed, I went to the other side and she did great. I pet her and made over her and we did some "stay out of my space, and move away from me excersises" which is moving the shoulder away from me, hind away from me, neck and legs away from me when I ask. Then we came back and tried picking up her feet. I tapped both front with a pair of pliers and she stood still with absolutly no fuss. I ended there. Tomorrow (if its not storming) its my friends turn, with my supervision of course.

WildMare

Posted : 5/25/2011 4:54:04 PM

Sounds like she's coming around to your way of thinking Cozmo....the mare doesn't know what it is to get her feet caught. How are you with a lariat?

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 5/25/2011 10:02:27 PM

[quote=WildMare]
How are you with a lariat?

hummm all depends... what did you have in mind??

WildMare

Posted : 5/26/2011 3:41:45 PM

I've seen my husband put a loop in the lariat and have the horse put his foot in it and he snugs it. Then he asks the horse to walk...and of course he tries to sling it off. He says he lets him have his response until the horse decides it isn't working for him and figures out he's working against himself. Then he works with the horse until he is walking with it. He does this in the round pen. Then after the horse gets comfortable just walking, he asks for the trot.

I'll ask him for sure what he'd do in your case...that's why I asked how you were with lariats. My husband is amazing with horses. I'll pick his brain and see what he says....... ':)'

WildMare

Posted : 5/26/2011 7:54:39 PM

He said with this mare, "get her forward". Rearing is a backward action and that keeping her "forward" makes it pretty difficult for her to rear. She's figured out that rearing has been effective for her. He said he would indeed use the lariat but thinks that this mare may require a step further than just the lariat.
He says she's probably always had an issue about her feet that no one addressed in the proper way and when it was discovered, the person trying to correct it,ended up getting into a fight with her which just reinforced her determination to keep the behavior. It may have started with only ONE foot and because of how the issue was mishandled, began a downward progression to where she is today, so with both her front feet now being an issue, rearing gets them both away from the farrier. He did say that because rearing is an extreme response for a horse, lounging her is not addressing the root cause and she will likely rear again with the farrier. She needs specific work with her feet and lounging alone won't do that even if she does let you tap her hoofs etc. He said that while lounging has it's place, she isn't making the connection of her feet, the farrier and rearing. He said she needs to learn what it is to have her foot/feet caught and move FORWARD at the same time. (Lariat around one foot, lounging her in a round pen).
He also said he would definitely do some hobble training with her even though it's not a popular method among many natural horsemanship scholars and in fact, considered cruel by some. But like I've heard him say many times to those who take issue with hobble training, "The difference between a horse needing hobble training and got it--- and your horse, is that if your horse gets his feet caught up in something like barbed wire or thorn thickets, my horse will still be standing there when I come to get him. Your horse is likely gonna either need a vet to treat him... or put him down."
My husband does embrace virtually all the natural horsemanship philosophies but the horses keep his common sense intact. I don't know if any of this will be helpful to you or not, but it is at least some food for thought. Good Luck to you!