ugly ears with feeding

What I would do with the young stud is that if you notice his ears are back when you are following him, immediately start going backwards and waving your arms like you are doing the chicken dance. Get him out of your space then turn around to face him. If he approaches with ears forward give him the grain right then and there as a "thanks for approaching me that way"...if his ears go back again, make him back up some more.

For the mare, I would NOT hit her in the face with the bucket. If she approaches with ears back wave your hands and get her to back up. Carry a lead rope around with you to use that to get her to back up (by waving it at her or whatever) instead of using the bucket and hitting her on the face.

The best thing to do is back them up, fast fast fast and then wait to see if they will approach with ears forward.

Also make sure you are reading the ears correctly. Is this a pinned back "I'm going to eat you" look and body language or is this a "I'm listening to what's behind me because I'm not so sure of myself" ears back. If the first, yes back them up the second you see them approaching you like that...if the second one, if you back them up you'll shatter their confidence in approaching you and chances are, they won't approach you again. (this would more deal to the mare who is coming at you, then the stud colt that is "driving" you away).

With the stud, the worst thing you could do is continue to go forward. He is driving you...putting pressure on you to move...and guess what? you are moving!

Life's too short for me to worry about what their ears are doing when I feed them.  Since they all eat in the pasture together they are laying ears back at each other.  I have no problems with them as far as respect goes but I can't see trying to make them put their ears up.  Just me.  If I were feeding someone else's horses I might do a little work if the horse seemed food aggressive but.... they can stick their tongue at me for all I care.  They're not my horses.  I hope you mean you just bump her on the face with the bucket to back her up.  I can see that.

hunterseat, I can see where you are coming from, but if it were me and I had to take care of my friends horse and feed him, I wouldn't ignore that look on their horses face, nor would I excuse that look from my horses face.
If my horse ever gives me the ears pinned back and the "arg I will eat you" look, he is immediately backed up and will continue to be until he approaches with ears forward. Does the lead horse tolerate a lower horse on the pecking order to approach with their ears back? Definitely not! Their ears go back and that horse is put in it's place. We are the herd leader (or we should be), we should not ignore that look if we want to stay at the rank of herd leader.

I know.  I do agree with you but really my horses aren't directing it at me.  They are smart and sweet and aren't aggressive towards me.  I could jump in there and get their ears up cuz they'd go "huh? what's your problem?"[]

My guess is this horse thinks she is ALPHA over you. It may be hard to get to be ALPHA over the horse in a week.
I see this problem with my old cranky mare. She knows im ALPHA over her, and she dont even think of pinning her ears when im near. But when my girlfriend started feeding she would pin her ears to her to get food. She would just be ornery but if i walked in or she know i was around she would be calm. But my girlfriend got to be ALPHA over her after a few weeks and everything is good.
matt

[quote=hunterseat]

I know.  I do agree with you but really my horses aren't directing it at me.  They are smart and sweet and aren't aggressive towards me.  I could jump in there and get their ears up cuz they'd go "huh? what's your problem?"[]


No I agree, not all the times in the pinning meant at you, many times I've had my horse approach me with pinned ears and before I ask him to leave I take a quick look around me. He normally only does it if the lower horse on the pecking order is with me. But even then....even if the horse went up like that to another horse (not the herd leader) the herd leader would still correct him even though it wasn't meant for them. So even if I know that's the reason I still tell him to "wipe that look off his face and come back to me when you look happy".

Okay, here is my contradicting advice.[]
 
First, I agree with Hunter, they ent your horses, so it ent your job to train him.  You WILL spend alot of time that the owners will ruin in seconds, voice of expereince. 
 
To contradict that, it is my tendancy that I develop a certain relationship with every animal I work with.  When I used to be a vet tech, and I HAD to work with some dog, me and that dog would develop a relationship pretty quick, and as nature dictates means me standin my ground PERIOD.  If I had to work with this animal for awhile, I would prolly establish a relationship with this animal, for my own convience (and safety).
 
Alpha by horses is achieved over feed and water first.  Even wild herds, the mare dictates where they ar eto graze, herself getting the prime grazin first.  When we feed our horses grain (unnatural to a natural order to begin with) we aggrivate certain behaviors, such as establishing dominance at feed time.  This colt at my house wudda been run outta the barn, then ignored, and if the behavior he exibited comin back was the same, the result wudda been the same.  He would not eat if he was doin that.  My response would be instantenous, the FIRST sign of ears or butt showin and like any alpha mare he wudda done some steppin till his behavior was acceptable (ie- licking, head lowered, askin to enter).  Then, all high and mighty, I wudda let him eat.  If he didn't get it, he'd go hungry.
 
But I don't know if I would do it to a horse that wasn't mine.  But if it was YOUR colt, these would be my recommendations, or somethin similiar to establish alpha at feedtime, which I tend to do with horses I have WAYYYYYY before they ever go in the round pen. 
 
Same for the mare.  As to the head whackin, I wuddn't do that.  I only 'strike' a horse (hit it hard to mean it) when they bite(and that has to be within 3 seconds of the offense or it will not connect with the horse's behavior), kick, strike or charge.  Other than that, I only posture.  (Cus that is all they are doin, they are not directing attackin you, they are posturing, you posture back.)
 
That bein said as well, there are exceptions to this.  I had a mare that was badly neglected, and I had to take a TOTALLY different approach to her food aggression.  It worked, but I didn't do what I described that I do above. 
 
 

With both of these horses, they're fed in their stalls. Both of them crowd me into the corner when I have their buckets until I dump it into the other bucket in the stall. The stud doesn't aggressively crowd me, he sort of goes along the side of the stall and tries to stick his nose in it before I get it dumped. Ears back, not listening to anything, they're almost pinned. So, I go Hey! and back him up or get him out of the stall. Then, I'll stand in the doorway and step aside to let him in only when his ears are up. If they're back and he snakes at all, he gets chased away again. He tries to herd my boy when I'm brushing him, but I've chased him away. He hasn't been in that&nbspasture very long and hasn't really been around many horses at all, just in a round pen watching the mares run around for probably 2 years. I think he just turned 3. I think he doesn't know how to act. 
 
With the mare, she's also in a stall. I don't beat her with the bucket, I really just tap it against the side of her face and loudly voice my displeasure, I don't swing with all my might. I don't want to hurt her, just get her out of my space. She crowds me really badly and tries to push me out of the way. She's absolutely NOT listening to anything behind her. The owner said she's always the first one to the hay, she's always the first around if she thinks anyone has treats. There is one mare that can chase her away if she wants to, but she's the one to chase everyone else away when she thinks food is involved. They call her Miss Piggy. I can't really chase her out of the stall, cause she's in the second stall, there's another one she walks through to get to hers. Her baby girl is in the second one.
 
The only interaction I ever get with these horses is when I go visit, they all crowd around me (or anyone else) to get pets and scratches. I've only ridden one of the mares, and she's the low man on the totem. I'm there to feed and scritch, from their point of view.
 
Anyway, thanks for the comments!

I didn't realize they are stalled.  I think you are doing the right thing to keep yourself safe.  Another argument for NOT feeding treats.....although I sometimes do....but not the norm.

Is there someone who can go with you to help feed and manage horses?  My paint gelding was laying his ears back and I thought he was directing it at me, but then I realized he was doing it at my dog because she wants his grain and has snapped at him before.  My other horses will  their ears back but its mostly anxiety from other horses crowding around.  I get big and noisy when they crowd around or get pushy.  Goodluck to you.

Well, this is the week I get to feed them. I talked to my neighbor, and both of these horses crowd him too. His fix for the mare was to swing the gate closed real fast behind him so she ran into it. Now she leaves a little more room for him to move. And for the colt, he gets the food in there THEN lets him into the stall. We'll see how things work. I'll do the same with both, get the food in there, then let them in.
 
I kept trying to think of ways to get them to back off, like a squirt of water in the face or a loud noise, but anything I came up with would make them difficult to work with around fly sprays or anything else I could use.
 
Anyway, thanks for the replies! Oh, I suppose I'll let you all know how it works out.

A couple of things...I don't think dinner time is the prime time for training or making a point. All the same, horses should respect your space when you're feeding.
 
When I have horses I don't know, or more than one horse, or horses who crowd, I carry a whip tucked under my arm and pointing back. When the horses crowd me I spin around and whoever is too close will get bumped with the whip. Not hard enough to hurt, though occasionally you do get a fluke smackeroo which generally surprises the heck out of whoever happens to be closest...but it isn't like you're LASHING at them or anything. Anyway, they will learn to keep back. Then it doesn't matter if they're pinning their ears because they aren't close enough to hurt you.
 
I prefer something like that instead of trying to make a training session out of meal time. In my experience, horses who are wanting to eat aren't particularly good subjects for lessons on manners. You want to be efficient and succint about it.
 
 

I'd boot them out of their stalls until I got the feed in there and then let them in.  They're not your horses to train after all so I would think about you before their training.