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A Little Nippy

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A Little Nippy
  • Hello.

    I recently graduated from college and moved back home for the time being. I have a couple horses that I left at my parents where they enjoyed a life of... pretty much just eating. They have had little work over the past few years.
    One of them is a mare, who has always been a bit on the ornery side. So I've been trying to just start doing some halter work with her. But after a little while she decides that she doesn't want to cooperate and will start getting nippy towards me. 
    I guess I really just need a good way to approach this, and deter the biting before it gets worse, and to approach her, because she seems to be lacking the respect right now.

    Thank you.
  • Congrats of graduating!!  Big accomplishment ':)'
     
    As far as the mare nipping, I always go by the "make them think they're gonna die for 3 seconds" rule.  As soon as she even starts to go after you, become "big," yelling, smacking her from the neck back (no head/face) and chase her away from you for 3 seconds, then turn it off and go back to whatever you were doing.  They generally will lick and chew and look at you like "What a psycho....." but this is how horses deal with each other.  Goodluck with your cranky girl.
  • Have you ever seen two horses facing each other playing the nipping game?  They nip back and forth until one of them backs up.  Whoever backs up first loses.  If you use your hand like a "pincher claw" so to speak (like a "C" in sign language?) and "bite" her with your hand.... Use that striking sort of action like one horse nipping at the other.  You know the chest area where the point of the shoulder is there and then, towards the center of the chest it hollows in a little bit...  Well just grab the point of the shoulder and dig your thumb into that hollow.  Just a quick "bite" with plenty of pressure.  So when she nips at you, you nip her back and make her take a step back.  Stop and watch the amazement cross her face.... hopefully she will get it the first time but you may need to play the game and win a couple of times.... 
    Backing up is a necessity.  It's submission and safety.
  • I agree with the above, act as they would, move at them, a little smack on the chest,make him move away.Be the boss!
  • I totally agree with the suggestions you've had so far!
     
    You could add Monty Roberts' 'join-up' sessions to her training. It would be another way of pushing her away from you until she makes the decision to submit to your authority and see you as her comfort zone.  Her reward would not be a treat, but being allowed to come back into your area and be stroked on the face and neck.
     
    It would be a win-win situation for you both.
     
    My horse was a terrible nipper as a youngster, and this really helped establish my authority in a kind but firm way.
     
    Put 'join up with horses' in your browser and you'll find a lot of info on how to do it.
     
     
  • Hi,
    I'll give you some alternatives & principles to think about, as I largely disagree with suggestions so far. I don't ever want my horses to even suspect I might kill them, or even maim them, for 3 seconds or otherwise. I also don't want to get into a 'dominance game' with a horse either, as I don't want the chance of losing... fingers, games or otherwise, and don't want to have to repeat the games ad nauseum. Horses only tend to play 'dominance games' with others who are 'players' and are on a similar level to them. Eg. those who are true leaders don't tend to play these games. Those that do are always at risk of losing their position.

    I use mainly behavioural and also 'clicker training' principles(tho don't use a clicker). You can learn the basic principles of behavioural psychology from some of the better 'clicker' sites. It's pretty straightforward & not at all as daunting as it may sound. There is also a fantastic little book called 'Don't Shoot The Dog' by Karen Pryor, dolphin trainer at SeaWorld and founder of 'clicker training' method, that I highly recommend(not a dog book, applies to any species).

    Basically, as far as the training is concerned, I would be teaching her manners, yielding and to 'respect' my space first & foremost. Making tasks easy, clear and rewarding helps not only to teach the horse 'commands' effectively but develop in her a good attitude towards doing what you ask. She learns that it's the easiest option and it is worthwhile doing, because she is rewarded with Good Stuff.

    Some keys to training are;
    -teaching in short, easy sessions;
    -breaking tasks down and progressing in small increments; -*instant* consequences *at the time of the behaviour* you want it to effect, or at worst, *within* a second or 2 of it ending - 3 seconds after the event is too long for a horse.
    -Providing positive reinforcement(reward, Good Stuff) frequently for 'Good' responses. Anything that is convenient, able to be given in a timely manner, that a horse truly desires at that time is appropriate. Food treats are a generally powerful positive reinforcer. A good rub or scratch in a favourite spot is often effective.
    -Avoid punishment wherever possible, use it judiciously, with excellent timing and learn the 'side effects' that come out of it, in order to minimise & address them. Be aware of what your behaviour is saying to the horse & say what you mean - eg. is retaliating in a 'dominance play' really seen as punishment, or as you wanting to indulge in these games with the horse??
    -Make sure the desired behaviour 'works' for the horse - it gets her what she wants, be it positive or negative(removal of pressure) reinforcement, and that the undesirable behaviour NEVER works.

    So, hypothetically, what I'd do in your situation is perhaps start on the other side of a fence, with a bossy horse used to getting what she wants. I would teach her to keep her nose to herself first & foremost, and not 'mug' me.(I teach horses to take one step back & 'tuck' their nose down to get what they want). I would stay in a safe environment like this, that I could stay out of harms way & just ignore the behaviour & ensure it never works, until she was reliable about 'respecting' my space & showing some 'manners'.

    I would then start teaching her 'normally' ensuring she gets sufficient positive reinforcement & short, easy enough sessions to enjoy your 'games' and want to try for you. *Be aware too tho that 'dominant' type horses also tend to be quick thinkers & get bored easily, so it's a balancing act between making it simple enough but also interesting enough for her to be bothered.

    I would strive to teach her what the Right things to do are, rather than focussing on punishing the Wrong. That is, I wouldn't consider it a regular 'tool' to be used, would think of opposing behaviours to teach her(if she's backing up & tucking her nose in or looking away, she won't be biting you).

    BUT I would be prepared to defend myself if/when necessary, and try to set things up so that if she does try a dangerous behaviour like biting, she would get *herself* punished for it. Eg. if I were waving my arms, the rope or a whip around me & she came into my space, she'd get herself in the way & get hit. If I had something spikey(like a metal curry comb for eg) in my hand & she went to bite me, *she'd* hurt her mouth. Part of the reason for this sort of method is in the timing - the consequences happen *at the time of* the behaviour. The other part is about her not taking it personally, not getting into a personal confrontation with the horse, which has the effect of losing any trust & 'respect' you may have gained in her eyes.