Confusing Horse

I worked with a mare that was like this about 2 years ago.  What I started doing was hanging the saddle on the rail and really working her on line, changing directions often and having her lope out of the change, back circles that sort of thing and then let her rest with her nose on the saddle.  We have a light weight saddle that we use and after a few minutes to rest at the saddle I would pick it up and start tossing it on her, when she wanted to dance around me I just kept her head tipped and held the saddle in place.  When she stopped I took it off and started again.  Did this for a few days till the sight and feel of the saddle didn't bother her.
 
When I did throw my heavy saddle on and cinched it up she did hump up but that was ok, I was ready and just let her buck for a while.  She got tired and wanted to stop but I kept her feet moving as though nothing had happened.  I was lounging her online just like I had each day leading up to this.  If she bucked I drove her to move faster and hustle, when she didn't I let her slow trot around me.  After a while she decided that bucking wasn't worth the energy and I gave her a good rub and turned her loose in the arena with the saddle on for about an hour.  she would be looking over the gate and go to move, forgetting about the saddle and feel it again and then buck a couple of times.  I did this for a couple of days but she insisted on wanting to crow hop each morning.
 
So the next thing I did was saddle her and start bumping her with the stirrups to yeild her hindquarters or walk forward.  Once she got that and wans't nervous about the stirrups banging her in the side I still had trouble with her wanting to hump up a bit so I decided to let her find out bucking wasn't an option.  I have a long 12ft rope with a large solid ring on one end.  I saddled her up and placed the rope over the saddle seat and then under her belly where the rear flank strap would go threading the rope through the ring.  Now I have the lead rope from the halter in my left hand and this rope in my right.  I would pick up on the rope and she would buck.  I let her buck keeping her head tipped to me so she couldn't run away and get tangled and when she would stop bucking I let slack in the rope.  I did this till I could pick up and she didn't buck.  Next day I gave her some time off because she was stiff from all her bucking and went back to it the next day.  I worked with her on the ground a while and then saddled her up, and the thought of bucking never crossed her mind from that day on.
 
When you do get her saddled let her buck till her heart is content.  She's telling you that she feels trapped and confinded.  It could be that the saddle also hurts her somewhere either on her withers or back.  Saddle her in the morning early and just let her wear it all day while you do chores and clean stalls.  Give her some hay and water later on and maybe ask her to move around a while free so that she remembers she is wearing it.  Make sure the cinchas are tight and let her be till that night.  Then bring her up to the tie post and let her stand there for a while and unsaddle her giving her a good scratch.  Next day do it again.  Let her start to think that it is just part of her skin from now on.  One of the worst things I see folks doing with a young horse is saddling them for the first time, let them wear it for 20 minutes and then taking it off and unsaddling them even if the horse is still nervous or tense. 
 
Hope that gave you an idea or two.  Good luck and stay safe.

Thanks, that does help a lot. I will probably try round penning her with the saddle on the rail. I also got a lariat that I was going to use like a front cinch, I'll probably try putting it on like a rear cinch. Sure there will be fireworks...

I was keeping a fairly tight hold on her head (using a rope halter and leaving slack in it, but a short enough rope I could pull her head right around if necessary), putting the saddle on her back, then holding onto it until she stopped moving. Then I'd take it off. When she really started fooling around and being silly, I'd forcefully disengage her hips several times and make her work at that until she wanted to stand, the problem with that was that this horse is so sensitive, and so smart, that she realized I moved my feet toward her before I grabbed her halter and pulled her around so it got to the point I would move inches, or even just lean toward her to tighten the cinch and she'd fly away. I had to figure out how to move her hips over without taking that step toward her which was a learning curve (and rather hard since I don't have much leverage that way).

I can tell she's progressed a little from what I started with, I just wanted some clarification to make sure I wasn't missing something. Thank You!

[quote=KacyCowgirl]She is extremely hard to saddle. I've sacked her out to no end with the saddle blanket .....but after the first few times, doesn't have much, if any, fear of scary objects (depends on the object).

Hi,

First & foremost, I'd make sure you have a saddle which is light & truly comfortable on her, as discomfort will of course add to the problem.

While most horses tend to be more obvious about their feelings, some, as with people, tend to internalise their stress & 'shut down' in the face of scary experiences. Therefore you may be mistaken that she is not afraid of the sacking out. She may, for eg. lower her head, be 'obedient' & appear to relax, but her eyes are glazed & she may even hold her breath!(as my current boy used to when it was too much for him).

IME it is these type personalities that tend to "suddenly, without warning, out of the blue, for no reason..." explode when things finally get too much & break through their 'shut down' mind. In that case, I'd go right back to the basics & slow down the steps & pressure to ensure she was *truly* confident with everything.

I would personally continue working through this and other 'foundation' issues before attempting to ride or do anything more difficult with her. I would be extremely careful with a horse like this that I *didn't* force her into anything more than she can handle. Of course it doesn't always work like this, but I'd be doing everything within my power to *avoid* causing her to buck or otherwise panic.

Even if you eventually teach her, through allowing her to 'buck it out' that the behaviour doesn't work, she's still going to have that bad, worried attitude about saddling, etc, and you...(she's learned to endure it & that resistance is useless, but hasn't learned to be comfortable & confident with it all) and the more 'practice' she gets at being worried & at bucking, the stronger this attitude/behaviour will become ingrained.

I believe attitude is one of the most important things you can 'train' in a horse & doing everything to promote a strong, trusting relationship and teaching the horse that you & your toys & games are Good Stuff is a vital foundation to everything else.

Ensuring you keep sessions very short and do stuff that is easy & fun for her in between. Eg. spend a couple of minutes with the saddle before going for a walk, doing obstacles, 'follow me' exercises, whatever, then going back for another minute or 3 with the saddle.

No matter what we do she won't easily accept the saddle. She's cinchy and cold-backed .... if someone else holds her, I can get the saddle on her and cinch it up

I would do it in baby steps, lots of 'approach & retreat'. I'd first work on getting her confident *untied*(long lead looped over your arm) with just approaching her with the saddle. If you can't do that, I wouldn't yet be thinking of putting it on her back. I would 'approach' with the saddle, but not get so close that she gets panicky. I'd stay at that point & allow her to move her feet as she felt the need, until she stopped(even if for an instant), at which point I'd instantly 'retreat'. Repeat the process until she's confidently standing there before getting closer. In this way I'd ensure she was truly confident with me standing beside her, saddle raised, before putting it on her *for a second*. Ensure she's confident with that before leaving it on her for longer. Ensure she's confident with it on & you touching her girth..... holding the girth loosely before *gradually* tightening it, etc, etc.

This may all sound very long-winded & tedious, and to begin with, it often is, but tends to be remarkably straightforward & quick with a horse who hasn't learned to be afraid. With her, already having learned this is Bad Stuff, I'd guess it is likely to be rather tedious, until you get to the point where she finally trusts you to be considerate of her.

The day after the clinic, I worked her in the round pen, saddled her, got on and off her several times,

I find one of the hardest things is to quit while things are going well, before you inadvertently go too far. Erring on the safe side and doing less than you think she'll be fine with is generally effective.... if frustrating - I tend to have the thoughts "This is going so well, I think we'll just do one or 2 more...."

I've sat on her two times since then, but can't walk her forward without her bucking.

I'd personally get her to the point where you can do all sorts on the ground with her saddled before attempting to sit on her. I'd get her confident with me just sitting on her before asking her to walk with me. Confident walking before going faster....

Anyway, that's my opinion & approach, so I hope it is of some help. Cheers!