Insulin Resistant? - Health & Supplements - Health & Supplements - Horse Community, Horse Pictures, Horse Forum and Information

Posted : 10/20/2009 4:31:32 PM

Hey all (wow haven't been on in a while)

My horse, Sonny, was just diagnosed with being insulin resistant. I didn't have the blood test done as my vet said that it was not necessary and was not always accurate but he seemed pretty sure that that was the matter with his weight.
I've been struggling for a bit with his weight as for the longest time he's had a big belly. I've been told my an equine nutritionist that the belly was due to "poor quality hay" (she gave him a body score .....from pictures...of 5-6), where as my barn owner gave him a body score of 7-8. The vet didn't seem to think he was that fat...I got the impression he was 6-7 from him, but said that he definitely should loose some weight.

So not only is Sonny going on a diet, but with him possibly being insulin resistant I need to know what to feed and what not to feed. I've been doing research but thought here would be a great place to ask for general information, and I had a friend ask on another horse forum for me.
I am going to get him a grazing muzzle for next year so he won't be able to get too much grass, and I will seperate him into a smaller pasture if I need to, but I hate to do that to him.

What types of treats (like veggies) can he have? What type of food is totally off limits? Could I have some general information on IR horses? I'm trying to bite this in the buds right now and get it under control in a decent ammount of time.

My barn feeds with round bales and if I have to I'll seperate him and have her feed either pieces of the round bale or flakes of hay from a square bale. He is on Grand Complete, but he can eat that straight (he is silly). My barn owner was mixing a bit of sweet feed into it to get him to eat it but I asked her to not give him any at all.

Thanks in advanced!
I'm adding a picture also of him so you can see him and know what I mean by his big belly

And I think his belly has gone down a bit but that is the most recent side-view picture that I have of him.

Thanks all in advanced! I am also going to try to go up more often to ride and/or play with him on the ground to get him moving. He is turned out 24/7 in a pasture so he does walk around a bit.

Thanks
Jenny

CrookedPostQH

Posted : 10/20/2009 7:16:55 PM

Your boy looks to have good bone and like he's carrying one or two hundred in extra weight including the belly. Looks like it probably sticks out pretty good to the sides. LOL Its easy for a horse just on hay OR grass to do that.

If he is on good pasture and has access to good bermuda or other grass hay 24/7, he does not need any other food unless you are working him hard and he can't keep weight on. Provide a range of loose free choice minerals, a probiotic, and maybe just a handful of good quality alfalfa pellets to deliver supplements, but no, no, no never ever any sweetfeed. Even for horses that are not IR diagnosed. Sweetfeed is like feeding twinkies! Sugar is not good for us and its not good for horses.

Some grain companies will add molasses as a way of binding less nutritious ingredients. Companies like sugar because it is cheap to buy and makes for a nice profit margin. And horses like it! Makes owners think they made a good choice cause Nelly is always happy at meal time. Last year a friend of my daughter's showed up with an ingredient label to see if we knew what one of the contents were. My daughter made some phone calls to the company - it took a while and they were giving her the run-a-round, but they finally admitted they sweep up the chaff and dirt, added molasses and bagged it for sale. That is about the worse example I know of, but even high dollar priced feeds are not all made with your horse's health in mind. Its a good idea to learn everything you can about what's on the market and unfortunately, you don't have a choice now that your horse is insulin resistant.

I have never had to deal with an IR horse, but I did find some concise information at the following website. I hope you are able to get your horse's weight down and that you can manage his condition. Best of luck.

http://www.canr.uconn.edu/ansci/ext/insulinresistance.htm

TanyaC97

Posted : 10/21/2009 12:38:31 PM

Sonny- Welcome back and hugs to you in dealing with this.

Here is a quick link I found:
http://www.balancedequinenutrition.com/IRArticle.html

It answers some basic questions pretty clearly.

The key with Insulin Res. (I had to have Jake tested for it this year and did TONS of research on it) is to watch for hidden sugars and carbs, and not to go NUTS on the protien as that will cause other issues (I have the $3k in vet bills to back it up).

I feed Carb Guard by Blue Seal- Many grain companies will make a similar feed that does not have the hidden crap in it and is safe for horses with a reasonable amount of fat and protien. I was careful to choose a vitimin that does not use molasses as a binding agent. You will have to do some research on things you feed, but in no time you will become a pro.

Carrots are okay, apples are not as good (sugar content) and many of the horse treats made have sugar as a binding agent.

And Crooked is right on with every said.

SonnyWimps

Posted : 10/21/2009 1:39:06 PM

I am not sure what type of hay he is on. I know it's some sort of alfalfa mix but that's all I know. My barn home grows it and it's definitely not bad quality or anything, and they do have all the cuttings tested (which I will be getting a copy of the results when she gets them).

I know sweetfeed is not good for horses, but we just used a tiny bit for maybe 10ish days (like tiny bit as in a handful) to mix in with his vitamin supplement. I was reading that Grand Complete does have Molasses in it...what other vitamin supplements do NOT have this in? I am also contacting the makers of Grand Complete to get their sugar levels in the supplement. If it is very high, I will have to stop and find another one that does not use sugars.

Both those links helped alot, thank you!

I have been watching sugars closely. His hay is going to be tested for sugars, and I am going to cut back on all treats and use only ones that are safe. I was told by a lady that owns 4 IR horses that carrots are a no as well as apples. So I'm going to steer away from carrots. Also no regular horse treats as he can't have alot of carbs.

Thanks everyone for everything. I"m still very worried. I am unsure what has edged this on, as he was fine previously and never had a problem getting weight off...I always had a problem keeping it on him...up until I moved him to this new barn. But I am going to sit down and make sure that I keep my barn owner up-to-date on everything so she knows that not to feed him and so on. I'm going to make sure that no sweet feed is given at all, and I'm going to look into switching vitamin supplements also.

TanyaC97

Posted : 10/21/2009 1:51:40 PM

Good to know about the carrots.

PeggySue

Posted : 10/21/2009 6:04:48 PM

Being in NY see if you can get Buckeye's Gro N Win or Triple Crown's TC30% supplement

most pelleted feeds and supplements use a SMALL amount as a binder think 3% of a ton so not enough to hurt....

soaking hay is a good option as well as limiting time on pasture

Safergrass.org is a great site for getting information

no grains at all no corn, no oats, no barley

I have three horses on a ration balancer and free choice hay I started becasue I had a IR horse that was a PITA

When looking at feeds and such ask about total NSC which is your sugars and starches combine.. keep it as low as possible also remember that number is X the amount you feed

so if you feed 1lb of 18% that is .18 lbs of sugars and starches

but if you feed 6lbs of 16% that is .72lbs of sugars and starchs

You can also add in some Mg and Chronium to help removve the sugras from his system the cheapest and easiest way I found for this is REmission

SonnyWimps

Posted : 10/23/2009 1:34:43 AM

My barn owner got him a low carb grain...Carb-Safe I believe was the name of it. He is not getting alot, just enough for him to take his vitamin supplement. Half a cup full if even that.

TanyaC97

Posted : 10/23/2009 1:17:39 PM

We can get carb safe here too. It is good stuff!!!!

SonnyWimps

Posted : 10/24/2009 1:59:45 AM

Yeah it's just so he can enjoy his supplement instead of walking away and ignoring it.

Here's a random question, I read somewhere that trotting burns more calories and works the horse harder than the canter. Is this true?

TanyaC97

Posted : 10/24/2009 12:48:20 PM

I just read an article on this....... I will try to remember where and post the link, when my brain remembers.
Basically is said that trotting burns more calories and uses up more energy (when try to take the edge of a horse). Cantering is good for overall coditioning and is easier on the joints, not that trotting is hard, but cantering is easier.

One example it said was a vet will as you to walk, jog, then trot your horse to watch for soundness issues as these take more effort than cantering.

SonnyWimps

Posted : 10/25/2009 8:20:49 PM

[quote=TanyaC97]

I just read an article on this....... I will try to remember where and post the link, when my brain remembers.
Basically is said that trotting burns more calories and uses up more energy (when try to take the edge of a horse). Cantering is good for overall coditioning and is easier on the joints, not that trotting is hard, but cantering is easier.

One example it said was a vet will as you to walk, jog, then trot your horse to watch for soundness issues as these take more effort than cantering.

I will try to do alot more trotting than cantering then. It's hard because I'm a firm believer of if the horse is being great to stop and leave, but Sonny definitely has been greatly lately (for the past 3 months) and I feel bad because I know I should keep going and work him more, but then I know I shouldn't because it will slowly diminish our relationship (if you know anything about Left Brain Introverts, you know that they can't be pushed without getting upset). I am going to try to go up in the morning almost every day to work with him on the ground.

An hour - an hour and a half a day (minus Thursdays and Sundya....and Saturdays) of walk, trot, canter switch directions then some other stuff so he doesn't get bored and dull would be better for him to loose weight then being worked 2 days a week for 4 hours. And then Thursday and Sunday I'll ride him and work him for longer 4ish hours...and Saturday I won't be able to come up. Does that sound like a decent plan? I work at noon on most days so I will have to go before that to work with him, then if I get nasty have enough time to come home and take a shower

Another picture (just because he's cute....and he's all lined up also....I think his topline is also due a bit to that belly. That's another reason why I want to get rid of it as soon as I can)

Edit: Just curious...since he's getting less food and hardly any treats, does his belly seem to be down by a bit? It's hard to tell in real life so I go by photos hehe

TanyaC97

Posted : 10/25/2009 11:28:37 PM

Yeah, if you look closely he does look a like thinner. Don't think of your work outs as "if he is good we need to quit" ---- Think of it as a longer warm up and cool down session. There is nothing wrong with doing some long trotting over poles on on the ground and moving them around and doing patterns with them. It would be fun for both of you, help his topline and his belly all at the same time. I know you can be creative with creating different patterns and drills to do at the trot.

My favorite is trotting shapes- Yes, circles, squares, ovals, trianlges, and heck a pentagon if I get fancy.

SonnyWimps

Posted : 10/25/2009 11:33:08 PM

I can't do very long sessions with him.
This is a short description of a Left Brain Introvert, which is what his personality type is

Characteristics of "Left Brained" (LB) Introverts include bored, disinterested, unmotivated, sulls up (stops and won't go forward in defiance), lazy and stubborn and may have a tendency to buck. LB Introverts simply win out by being non-responsive until you give up.
LB horses are not afraid of people, they are self confident, brave, are relatively insensitive, playful, mouthy, exuberant and dominant. At minimum, these horses can be pushy and disobedient, and at worst they are aggressive. Keep in mind, these horses can be dangerous when they don't like or trust people.
LB horses need you to become a lot more interesting. They need things to do. They are usually quite playful and are easily bored by riders who are fixated on perfecting a maneuver, and that's what makes them act up. Because they are so confident they are fast learners.
Introverted horses tend to appears withdrawn and "slow" and need things to happen very slowly. These horses are so often misread as quiet and stubborn, but in the RB Introvert's case, he has crawled into his shell while the LB Introvert has shut you out, much like the teenager who pretends he can't hear you. These horses need you to be able to do nothing, sometimes for quite a while before they become confident enough to come out, or curious enough to want to engage.

Fromhttp://www.parelli.com

I am going to try to go up every day for an hour or more depending on when I have to start work, and work him for an hour and then spend some time doing something he enjoys so I'm not the evil monster.
Since you said his belly as gone down a bit that means just being on the hay and low sugar stuff has helped, being worked every day for even an hour should help more, right?

PeggySue

Posted : 10/26/2009 10:55:00 AM

depends on what brands of feed you can get you can possibly lower sugars and starches MORE by going with a Ration balancer. also adding a supplement like Remissionhelps to assist with removing the sugars from his system ':)'

He is a well fed boy no doubt. Also look into hay cubes as treats instead of carrots or apples

soaking hay helps alot but is not always a option in boarding situations

be sure he is getting at least 1% of his DESIRED Body weight in hay

CrookedPostQH

Posted : 10/26/2009 3:39:26 PM

Taking pictures of his weight loss process is a good idea. You will be able to judge from the first photo to a current one just how its going. Try to get shots from the front and back, too, that look straight from front legs to back legs. These will provide a view of the load he is carrying on shoulders and hip. From the lastest pic you posted you can see the fat above his tail is really pudgy. It won't be that long before you start to see more definition as the fat is removed and no longer covers the muscle.

Remember that as he replaces fat with muscle, the muscle will burn more caleries than his fat deposits did. Start out slow and easy, walk/trot/walk, and build up his wind and cardio stamina. He is probably not feeling well the same as someone with diabetes that is out of control - their systems are way out of balance! The weight loss will be easier for him as he becomes more fit and he will be able to go for longer periods as his endurance increases.

Seems like you have developed a great plan. I know you both will benefit from more time together. Good for you and best wishes for your horse!