Lemness problem i need ideas

Tendons?????

not sure. have all four legs wraped tonight with her in the stall just to try and elimnate a tendon problem

Hi,

Not sure I definitely get what you mean on a couple of things, but guessing... "throughing her shoulder" means throwing it, tho don't understand what you mean by it, and guessing that "twsiting the hawk" means twisting her hock?

Have you had a bodyworker such as a chiro or physio out to her? I would definitely be getting someone of that sort out to her, unless your vet has specialised in that area. Vets can be great at many things, but just like your GP, they're generally not well versed on specific things like this - they concentrate on learning the basics, in order to get a general idea.

It also sounds very possible the problem may be hoof related. If she has thin soles, weak heels, she will of course be uncomfortable & at risk of stone bruises/abscesses. Weak heels are common, and will cause a horse to 'tippy toe', especially at faster gaits, where there is more impact force. This will make a horse 'choppy' or 'short stride'. You can learn more at hoofrehab.com & if you like, you can post pics of her feet to get some feedback on them.

Re suppliments, I'm assuming you're talking joint supps? Nutritional supps are definitely a good idea, as just about every horse will be deficient or imbalanced in a range of nutrients without it, but be it joint supps or 'just' nutrition, they aren't a short term thing, but generally need to be fed for some months before seeing any changes.

One other thing that comes to mind is 'locking patella' or 'slipping patella', which hopefully the vet, or definitely the bodyworker would be able to check for. But that doesn't effect front legs.

Awesome reply, wundahoss!  I was thinking chiro and joint supp and abscess.   You covered it all plus some!  My horses, dogs and I are all on joint sup.  Have been for years.  If I run out and figure I can delay buying more, SOMEBODY ends up in pain.  Some take 30 days to really kick in.  There are some VERY reasonable ones at horse.com.

Also, at her age I'd have her on Senior (something I recently wrapped my brain around - duh).  Sounds like it might just be a touch of arthritis.

Thanks mate! I might not always succeed, but always try hard to be helpful & objective....

Everyone needs to understand that animal chiro's and body workers (unless they are also licensed veterinarians) have much less education and training than a veterinarian and are not prepared to or legally allowed to diagnose conditions.  Veterinarians aren't trained to just do "general" work--they are specifically trained in performing examinations in order to determine the cause of a problem and in-depth medical training to understand the vast array of conditions that could be causing symptoms seen. Chiro's and body workers again do not have the in-depth training and education so do not even know what the majority of the possible causes for a certain set of symptoms is.  (You can't know what the problem is if you don't even know that a specific disease/injury/condition is possible.)  There are of course situations in which an alternative therapy  would be helpful but you need to have a diagnosis or a localization of where the pain is stemming from before the you can assume that an alternative type of care may be of benefit.    Veterinarians may recommend that you bring in a chiro or body worker if they trace the cause of the problem to a certain area where that specific type of treatment may be of help.   Many of the conditions that a chiro or body worker may be able to help with also are not the main problem but rather the result of a medical condition elsewhere in the body.  For example, lameness in a leg or foot can lead to a difference in the way that the body is used/moved that can lead to intense muscle pain or the back getting out of alignment.  So, a chiro or body worker may be able to help with that part of what is going on with the patient, but unless the main cause is addressed by the vet the other work will only provide temporary relief from a portion of the problem.
 

I should note that my comments about chiro's and body workers only pertain to those in the US.  In many states people train to be animal chiro's and body workers gain their certification through programs which may be as few as  5 hours of lectures/training at a seminar  that may be offered by someone who has no more training than that themselves.   There are a few states which require that someone already be a licensed veterinarian before they can offer their services in chiropractic manipulation or body working but in most there is only a requirement that they work under the supervision of a licensed veterinarian.  And many people simply do not follow the laws and perform tasks that are strictly reserved only for performance by a licensed veterinarian--diagnosis and prescription of treatment.
 

Hi Ryle,

I note in your sig. that you're a vet. tech. Is that a vet, or vet nurse, vet researcher ...? Sorry, I'm in Aus & not sure what it means. I also took note of your second post, which is something that came to mind reading this - may depend where you're talking about as to qualifications, etc. I also didn't emphasise finding a *good* bodyworker, not just any, which I'm usually pedantic about, because I realise there are good & bad in whatever area, be it vets, bodyworkers, farriers, hcps...  As for my comment about vets learning the basics to get general ideas, I agree that that is too blase sounding, not quite what I meant, but gives the gist of it. Of course they are trained in a range of 'specifics' too, but what I meant is that they're not generally anything like specialists in all or relevant areas.

I basically agree with most of what you say, but my point was, while vets will have a lot more education & training, it's general - eg. they must learn about all parts of many different species. Therefore, while they *may* be good at diagnosing whatever, unless they specialise or take special interest in certain areas, they may know far less than a physio(assuming decent education & experience, not just 5 hr course) about body probs, far less than a (well educated)hcp or farrier about feet, for eg.

Chiro's and body workers again do not have the in-depth training and education so do not even know what the majority of the possible causes for a certain set of symptoms is.  (You can't know what the problem is if you don't even know that a specific disease/injury/condition is possible.)  There are of course situations in which an alternative therapy  would be helpful but you need to have a diagnosis or a localization of where the pain is stemming from before the you can assume that an alternative type of care may be of benefit.

That would depend very much on the symptoms IME. It may or may not be reasonably obvious that the prob is stemming from joint, muscle, hoof related probs, for eg. The OP has also already consulted her vet & farrier & they are at a loss, so shows that they can't diagnose everything. Perhaps tho she could ask her vet to refer her to a *good* bodyworker.

Many of the conditions that a chiro or body worker may be able to help with also are not the main problem but rather the result of a medical condition elsewhere in the body.  For example, lameness in a leg or foot can lead to a difference in the way that the body is used/moved that can lead to intense muscle pain or the back getting out of alignment.

Agree thoroughly with that. While bodywork or veterinary isn't my area of expertise, I can tell you that I've worked with many horses with hoof probs which have gone un- or mis-diagnosed by vets, and that hoof probs generally go hand in hand with body issues. I've also had bodyworkers refer horses to me because they recognise hoof imbalance being a factor or cause, and I would hope that any bodyworker worth his pay would have at least a general knowledge about that sort of thing. In most cases tho, it's difficult or impossible to work out which came first - did neglected or badly managed hooves lead to body issues or did body issues or something else(such as diet) cause hoof imbalance? And just 'fixing' hooves doesn't generally mean body issues will go away of their own accord, or vice versa. Therefore, I'm in no way saying do without the vet, but it *generally* takes a more holistic approach, and vets can *generally* only go so far.

If it were my horse, I would have my chiropractor out. They are different then equine massage and vets. With competing I have my mare looked at every 6 months at the least, just to make sure all her bones, organs, etc are in the right spots.

Not a problem with her feet they have been throughly checked. Not a tendon issue no inflimation no heat. had her in for a week thinking it may be the stiffle. Pulled her out to brush her down about 5 days in and she was dead lame, extremly stiff and tripping. Decided to shave her down to see what i may be missing under the hair. she has what looks to be a surgical scar over her right hip, and  one on her right cannon bone that looks like a poped splint but im begining to think may be she has had her leg pinned for some reason.
    i've got her legs wrapped all four she seemed to do well with that. I'm wondering if its posible that any hardware that may have been used for surgery could have come lose or been dmaged. I'm not sure if i could find any kind of normality in her gate, but she willing picks up the canter in the field to herass the other horses, and seems quiet happy out there munching hay. She is on 3/4 safe choice by nutrena, a senior suplament that has msm and glucosamine in it, along with a minerla lick in her stall, and their is both a salt and a mineral lick in the field, with free choice hay from high quality costal round bales (wish we had timmothy down here)

Hi,

Sounds like she may have had an.... interesting history! I would definitely not advise locking her up, unless told to by your vet. The extreme stiffness you described could well be due to being locked up, as this is but one problem that can be caused by over confining horses. Likewise, stifle & arthritis type probs are often worse the less exercise they get, within reason, & gentle, constant exercise, such as a horse is designed for is usually fine & better than none. Of course, if she's too sore to move, she's just not going to do it in the paddock either.

I know that horses with 'locking stifle/patella' are generally worse the less they do too & apparently have little issues if kept fit. After consultations with vets & bodyworkers, knowing I don't have anywhere enough time to keep my guys fit, I have included low cavaletti/logs around my horse's track, for the sake of those with stifle issues, as stepping over things is helpful for the fitness of that joint. As they have to go along a track between their dam & grazing, regardless of whether I get there to do anything with them, they're at least crossing a few logs, at least twice a day. I was dubious as to how effective this would be, but it's certainly helped my pony, who would just 'lock up' for no apparent reason every so often & end up lame occasionally. Touch wood, but it's been about 2 months with not one instance so far...

Interested to hear what more the vet, bodyworker or whoever you got had to say?