Nero - Donkeys & Mules - Donkey & Mules - Horse Community, Horse Pictures, Horse Forum and Information

Posted : 11/30/2009 1:42:08 PM

Hi,

I'm from Italy and i'm the proud owner of Nero, a 14h Italian&nbsp

ack mule, as you may remember from the older (now gone) thread, i was used to horses and was clueless about the differences between horses and mules and had some troubles with him at first, but then we became good friends and now he's really willing and enjoyable to ride

Mules are still very popular as pack animals in Italy but hardly anyone considers them as riding animals here, so it's extremely difficult to find suitable riding saddles and tack here.

also, since they're not bred for riding, Italian mules, like Nero, are small, mutton withered, short backed animals with a rather stocky build, so most saddle meant to fit the typically larger and horse-like American mule are simply too large for our mules, so by now, i'm riding him bareback (luckily he has a rather round, fat, comfortable back)

I'm in contact with a saddlemaker to have a custom western saddle built for him, but it's nothing easy, being a small short backed mule he won't take any tree with bars longer than 20" but on the other hand i'm a stout 200 lbs man and i can't ride in a seat shorter than 15".

The only way to build such a tree is to make it with very little or almost no bars sticking out behind the cantle, is this an acceptable compromise?

Here are some pictures of Nero

danastark

Posted : 12/1/2009 4:10:30 AM

Nero is gorgeous! I love his coloring and his sleek coat. He looks very smart too! Too bad it's so hard to find a saddle that fits. Hope your new one works out. Thanks for sharing.

Jimmyhaflinger

Posted : 12/1/2009 11:44:36 PM

an alternative i'm considering to the fairly troublesome and risky custom western saddle, is the Argentine Criollo saddle (also called the "gaucho saddle" or Recado), the one made from a stack of rugs, a semi-flexible leather tree and a sheepskin seat cover, all kept together by a surcingle and two cinch straps.

Anyone has some experience with this kind of saddle? it is usually regarded as being easy to fit on almost any horse or mule, and quite comfortable and secure for the rider.

Fancymules

Posted : 12/5/2009 4:15:35 PM

Nero is such a handsome boy ! I hope that you can find some sort of saddle to fit him. The gaucho saddle may be the way you have to go. I know around here that alot of people have started using the Maya Treeless saddles on their mules and donkeys ( Mammoths). I've been tempted to purchase one to try myself. I do keep hoping I'll win one from ADMS ( people that have registered their mammoth donkeys are automatically entered into a drawing for a saddle ) Here's a link to the website if you want to look at them.

http://www.mayasaddles.com/

Jimmyhaflinger

Posted : 12/8/2009 9:06:20 PM

I've finally bought a (used) Gaucho saddle, sadly it's missing its special heavy wool saddle pad so i'll have to make a new one to get the best out of it, but i already rode the saddle with a regular western felt pad and it's very comfortable and secure and seems to fit Nero well.

The Argentine Gaucho saddle is in fact a treeless saddle but unlike most modern treeless saddles it's really stable for mounting even with a 200-lbs rider like me, i think that's because unlike many modern treeless saddles, it's a century old, proven design made for ranch work.

I was lucky to find a Gaucho saddle here in Italy as there aren't many around, in fact it's quite difficult to find any kind of saddle apart from Western or English ones.

I'll post some pics of the saddle on Nero ASAP!

hunterseat

Posted : 12/8/2009 10:33:20 PM

Nero looks like fun!

Jimmyhaflinger

Posted : 12/15/2009 1:19:28 PM

here's a pic of Nero with the gaucho saddle:

akyramoto

Posted : 12/29/2009 4:28:52 PM

WOW, i think thats so cool!! I love 'different' saddles, the guacho saddle looks super comfy!!!
Can't wait to see more pics of Nero, he's a handsome guy!!!

you know I wonder if a saddle like Daisy's would fit Nero.....

Jimmyhaflinger

Posted : 1/9/2010 1:01:23 AM

looks like a western saddle without skirts.

the BIG problem i had with western saddles is that even a saddle built on a regular mule tree won't fit him, he's very short backed, he needs a tree with 20" bars or less, but i'm a stout man and i won't fit in a seat shorter than 15", now try to make a tree with 20" bars and a 15" seat, you'll end up with a tree with no bar tips behind the cantle and in front of the fork, which is bad news for weight distribution and will likely put a lot of pressure on his kidneys.

The Gaucho saddle instead has a tough but flexible structure and so is more forgiving and won't put&nbsp ';p'

ressure on his kidneys

deserthorsewoman

Posted : 1/9/2010 2:19:27 AM

Google Bob Marshall Sports Saddle. That might be an option. The Western looks with the Gaucho principle. I used to have the very first model, in 1993. Loved it. Whole new feeling. Literally.

Jimmyhaflinger

Posted : 1/9/2010 9:11:34 PM

is there an air channel over the spine in the Bob Marshall saddle? i know that the Skito pad provides some spine clearance but it just isn't enough for my 200+ lbs.

i still have an older Tuend Treeless saddle (basically a deluxe clone of the Torsion) and it doesn't have any kind of air channel over the spine, and even with a Skito under it, my horse got some white hairs on his back due to this saddle (luckily they disappeared later), it also rolled badly when i tried to mount using the stirrups, i won't put this saddle on any horse or mule anymore

The Gaucho saddle instead has a big air channel over the spine and is just as stable as a regular treed western saddle so i can mount using the stirrups.

deserthorsewoman

Posted : 1/10/2010 2:40:58 AM

www.sportssaddle.com
It doesn't have spine clearance, you sit between a front- and hind tree, basically, on a thick layer of neoprene. Same as a spanish Vaquero, just with modern materials. Mine rolled on the Haflinger, on the TB it was just fine, since he had withers. Check out the site, it explains how it's built. I, personally, wasn't too thrilled about the Torsion.
I can see problems with a horse who has the spine sticking up, has little muscle on the back.

Jimmyhaflinger

Posted : 1/10/2010 6:54:08 PM

Nero, like most Italian pack mules, has very low, wide withers and a wide round back so he would probably work even without a spine channel.

But still i don't trust treeless saddles that don't have a real spine channel, as in my experience, having a treeless saddle with no spine channel, the stirrup leathers and cinch hooked to a simple 3" strap embedded in the padding, and a 200lbs rider sitting on top of it over many hours of trail riding, is asking for trouble.

In the Gaucho saddle, the stirrup leathers and cinch billets are hooked to a large (10x10 inches) heavy leather plate and so the pressure from the stirrups and cinch is spread over a larger area than it would be with the simple narrower nylon strap that most treeless saddles use.

akyramoto

Posted : 1/22/2010 7:01:34 PM

[quote=Jimmyhaflinger]

Nero, like most Italian pack mules, has very low, wide withers and a wide round back so he would probably work even without a spine channel.

But still i don't trust treeless saddles that don't have a real spine channel, as in my experience, having a treeless saddle with no spine channel, the stirrup leathers and cinch hooked to a simple 3" strap embedded in the padding, and a 200lbs rider sitting on top of it over many hours of trail riding, is asking for trouble.

In the Gaucho saddle, the stirrup leathers and cinch billets are hooked to a large (10x10 inches) heavy leather plate and so the pressure from the stirrups and cinch is spread over a larger area than it would be with the simple narrower nylon strap that most treeless saddles use.

I agree with you, that was my issue with all the treeless saddles I came across. I *believe* in spine clearance. The saddle I got Daisy is a Paso Fino saddle, the bars are 19" long, but like you said it is a 15" seat. anything larger would require longer bars. Now just to keep my butt the size it is so it'll fit!! HAHA!

Jimmyhaflinger

Posted : 2/24/2010 10:36:57 PM

Check this one out!!