Homozygous LP - why? - Color & Pattern - Color & Pattern - Horse Community, Horse Pictures, Horse Forum and Information

Posted : 5/23/2009 7:29:16 PM

Everyone who knows me already knows I'm genetically challenged.... [8|] ...never sounds right.

I got a call from the horse farm neighbors. They had guests and wanted to show them Danica. This is the lady who emailed me because I had a Silhoette Farms thread and posted a picture of Freckles, one of the studs there. Freckles happens to be from Florida and these folks are his owners! So we've "met" by email. Sally was telling her about Dani....
Everybody take out your Equine Color Genetics book and turn to page 134. The horse at the top? Gold champagne palomino? She has a baby from this guy. AND she was walking around looking stuff up when she saw Dani.... IN HER BOOK! I have one, Sally has one, DaneHaven has one[

], Broken A has one..... They really want me to have Dani tested to see if she has the red gene AND we are ALL wondering what she'd produce with Silhouette's Snowstorm (Blue). He's always been my favorite. I mentioned she was homozygous for the LP gene and I couldn't tell them why or what it even means. All I could say was "cuz AppyLady sez so".
Somebody write something that sounds intellegent so I can email it to her! [

] OH also, if I test her it will be $35 for each thing they test for. There are things I don't need to test for because I can see with my own eyes....if I knew what I was looking at. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to test for? The red gene? But Sweet Pea looks like she has red to me.....

jungle_cat

Posted : 5/24/2009 1:02:09 AM

Post a pic & then I can tell you want I would test for.

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2009 1:45:25 AM

How's this?

She initially was advertised as a blue roan. Obviously that wasn't accurate. Manisue's 2yr old is advertised as a silver grulla and she looks a LOT like Dani. The people that saw her today, looking through their book.... do you have one of those books j_c? Anyway, on page 154, they were comparing her to the chocolate silver with roan blanket. btw, they are SSH/TWH people and had never seen rib striping! [ ':D'

] They were quite impressed! [ ':)'

]

Arock

Posted : 5/24/2009 1:48:45 PM

From what I see, you don't have to bother with testing for black. She is obviously grulla (black) so we know she has the dun factor. I don't doubt for a minute that she has two copies of LP.
I'm not sure what her parents base color is but it's obvious what Dani is.

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2009 1:54:19 PM

Mom and Dad.

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2009 1:56:27 PM

Looks to me Mom has red, don't you think? Remember ya'll were thinking she might be a grulla, too? I have some pics that show some possible leg striping on Mom.

Arock

Posted : 5/24/2009 2:06:41 PM

[

]They both look like bays under all those spots. I know momma has to be a bay dun leopard or Dani wouldn't be a grulla.

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2009 2:12:40 PM

Okay, back to my original thought. You know she's homozygous because she's a snowcap? Anything else?

Arock

Posted : 5/24/2009 2:15:46 PM

Night blind?

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2009 2:41:46 PM

So, all homozygous LP's are night blind?

I think AppyLady is just sick of having to tell me the same thing over and over. I got some great stuff that she posted or emailed.... something.... I'll post that.
When I talk about Appaloosa roans, I'm referring to LP (varnish) roan, not classic roan (Rn). The LP gene is responsible for the white sclera, mottled skin, striped hooves, and a progressive sort of roaning. It also "turns on" the color patterns.The amount of roaning can vary greatly, depending on zygosity, base color, and pattern genes present. For example, a horse which is homozygous for LP will tend to roan out faster and to a greater degree than one which is heterozygous. A black base coat will be the most resistant to roaning, and a chestnut base coat will show the most roaning. A nose-to-toes leopard will not show any roaning at all, because roaning only affects base color, not the spots. However, that doesn't mean the horse doesn't have the LP-roan gene, because LP is the roan gene.
The reason I stress that the LP gene is what causes Appaloosa roaning is to clear up a common misconception. A friend of mine specializes in raising leopards; when she gets an LP-only foal (characteristics, but no coat pattern) she sells it quickly and cheaply. She says the foal will never roan out, because her leopards don#%92t have “the roan gene”.

Her leopards DO have “the roan gene” because they have LP. It just isn#%92t noticeable because only base color roans, not the spots. Therefore her leopards stay pretty much the same color their entire lives. They have no dark base color for the roan to act on. What her LP-only foals DON#%92T have is the PATN1 gene -- the leopard gene.

There are other factors that can effect or suppress roaning (besides base color), but it#%92s unlikely that very many are present in her horses. She doesn#%92t breed specifically for non- or low-roaning base coats. She breeds Appaloosa-to-Appaloosa, and they#%92re more likely to roan quickly and to a greater degree than Appaloosa-to-Quarter Horse (etc.) crosses.

My new mare, Siya, is a true solid black -- non-LP. She was sired by a black with spotted blanket, out of a bay leopard. She comes from a long line of colorful Appaloosas, so it#%92s quite likely that she carries color pattern genes (could even carry PATN1), but they can#%92t be seen because she has no LP which allows them to be expressed. Being non-LP, she will never roan out (and she hasn#%92t, at 9 years of age). Bred to my homozygous-LP snowcap stallion, she should have some loud-colored babies, possibly even leopards. Time will tell!
~ wisdom of AppyLady

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2009 2:49:36 PM

Okay, having read all that, I have another question. My friend's horse, Comet, is a chestnut and he has a good bit of roaning going on. He also has a striped hoof.... I'll try to get some pics of him up. I wonder if he has some ap in him somewhere. His mom is on premises. They are "QH" but.... Dani is Ap and has EasyJet in her, which is QH. (I need the smiley with the google eyes and the tongue sticking out.)
I don't have a real good picture of him but you can see his roaning - his tail is SOO pretty with all the different shades!

hunterseat

Posted : 5/24/2009 3:06:23 PM

MY this thread has alot of posts already! lol
Dani's dad is: cr smoother than jet
Her mom was listed as a buckskin leopard.... AND 15.3, which she's 14.2. Oops that's nearly the same thing anyway. [:@]

Arock

Posted : 5/24/2009 5:05:10 PM

What are Dani's grandparents listed as?

Arock

Posted : 5/24/2009 5:21:55 PM

[quote=hunterseat]

Okay, having read all that, I have another question. My friend's horse, Comet, is a chestnut and he has a good bit of roaning going on. He also has a striped hoof.... I'll try to get some pics of him up. I wonder if he has some ap in him somewhere. His mom is on premises. They are "QH" but.... Dani is Ap and has EasyJet in her, which is QH. (I need the smiley with the google eyes and the tongue sticking out.)
I don't have a real good picture of him but you can see his roaning - his tail is SOO pretty with all the different shades!

Does he have any other LP traits? There are several roan genes not related to LP. If he has only one striped hoof, I'm betting there is white hair on that foot.

AppyLady

Posted : 5/24/2009 6:00:17 PM

[quote=hunterseat]

So, all homozygous LP's are night blind?

I think AppyLady is just sick of having to tell me the same thing over and over.

[ ':D'

] Yes, all homozygous LPs are night blind. It doesn't bother them, and they're so well adapted that their owners quite often don't even know it.

Dani is homozygous for LP, which means she'll pass on LP to all of her foals. This means they'll all have the characteristics (white sclera, mottled skin, striped hooves, LP roaning). They may or may not have the coat pattern, but with all the color in Dani's background, I'm betting that they will!

Daddy is a bay and momma is a bay dun. Both are black-based but could still carry the red factor. Go ahead and have Dani tested, just for fun, to see if she's homozygous black.

Isn't Bue a Spotted Saddle Horse? Tobiano? If you want to see what the combination of LP + tobiano looks like, look at those gorgeous foals of Arock's!