Rescue Horse; some issues! - Western Training & Behavior - Western Training & Behavior - Horse Community, Horse Pictures, Horse Forum and Information

Posted : 6/9/2011 3:48:24 AM

I went to visit my mothers best friends who own a rescue organization called Equine Grove. They recently took in a 15 year old Quarter Horse gelding named JoJo. His owner was a collage student who just couldn't afford his board anymore. He is broke, in great shape for his age but has some issues.

First issue is he is cinchy, when you cinch him up too fast and snug, he will lunge forward and freak out for a few seconds. Don't do it every time but you can tell when he is about to do it because he tenses up. If you pull it up a little, then walk him around, then pull it up tight he is fine, but wont allow you to do it all at once. Any suggestions on how to fix this?

Second thing is he was used as a jumper pretty much his whole life. So the way he was rode, he had consistent pressure applied to the bit? He is very stiff, don't have any sort of vertical or lateral flexion and a quarter mile stop. When he canters his head is up by your head the entire time. When you go to stop him, you have to sea-saw the bit back and forth till he comes to a stop. Any suggestions?

He is a very sweet horse, no buck, rare and really just wants to please but is pretty set in his ways on how he is ridden. I ride western, not english, and I am used to a loose rein and a lot of vertical and lateral flexion. He has non of this.

Since my gelding Gunner is doing exceptionally well under saddle, I thought I would help a few rescues get ready to be put up for adoption.

Durangogramma

Posted : 6/9/2011 4:49:47 AM

RE: being cinchy - Don't cinch him up all the way all at once. That's not a problem. Put the saddle on and cinch it smoothly and gently to the point that the saddle won't fall off when he moves. Put on his boots (or yours) or bridle, whatever, and then go back and smoothly tighten it a little more. Walk him to where you're going to ride and then cinch up the rest of the way if needed.

If he is REALLY cinchy then just work with him by pulling the cinch up to his belly and just 'bump' him lightly several times with it. Cinch gently to the point that the saddle won't slip (it really doesn't have to be tight) and just longe him with it. No rule says you have to ride every time the horse is saddled. If he's that cinchy, someone has probably really given him the old "heave-ho" at some point. He just doesn't want to be hurt again. You need to show him that he won't be hurt. It takes time.

Regarding the bit, you will need to begin working on lateral flexion (with a halter at first, preferably) first. From the ground at first. Later, after you have him flexing well from the ground with a bit, then you can get on and work on flexion standing still, an later at a walk.

I see lots of groundwork in your (and his) future. You are basically starting over with him. There are no shortcuts if you want a calm responsive horse. He is going to have to unlearn and relearn (which is harder than just learning correctly in the first place). Good luck.

Durangogramma

Posted : 6/9/2011 4:51:45 AM

Yuck. Some of what I wrote is grammatically clunky. Sorry. I'm tired.

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 6/9/2011 5:17:41 AM

[quote=Durangogramma]

Yuck. Some of what I wrote is grammatically clunky. Sorry. I'm tired.

No worries, my grammar is horrible! As long as we understand each other and my old english teacher isn't on this forum, I think it will be okay haha! Thanks for the tips, sounds great. I must just have too much time on my hands to actually go work with a rescue. He is not mine, but since the loss of Cozmo, it is best I keep my mind busy with something productive. I work with Gunner about 6 days a week and let him have Sundays off to be a horse! He gets about 2 hours in each day and he is coming along really nice. So proud of him! And since my mother told me that Grove needs some extra hands, I decided to go help out.
Is this normal for a english horse to be used to having consistent pressure on the bit at all times? If you ride him in a loose rein, he tends to pick up speed. I thought about teaching him to flex on the ground and then work my way up to in the saddle and do a ton of one rein stops at the walk, trot and canter. Sound right? Lateral flexion now, will lead to vertical flexion later on in his training. He is such a good horse, wants to be loved in and is extremely smart! Ill post some pictures tomorrow evening for all of you I promise!

hunterseat

Posted : 6/9/2011 1:27:27 PM

Is this normal for a english horse to be used to having consistent pressure on the bit at all times?

I'm not a trainer but I try to take lessons every where I go. I've ridden at a place that required HEAVY pressure on the mouth which eventually made the horse flex, which is when you take the pressure off. It wore my arms out and really, who wants to ride like that???

I agree with Kathi. Also consider a few "bitting" sessions. I learned about it on the New Vocations rescue site - they have a lot of great tips. It worked with my OTSB who felt like he would pull my arms out of socket in the beginning.

Basically (and you want a relaxed horse) put on saddle and bridle (or surcingle and bridle). Either with the reins or lead ropes evenly on both sides, put a little pressure (very little) and tie them to the girth/surcingle. So the horse is tied, standing and has a little pressure on their mouth. They learn to flex to get off the pressure. let them stand a while and then that's it. next time you might put a little more pressure. A smart horse will soon connect the flexing with the release. It really helped me with Zag.

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 6/9/2011 5:39:10 PM

[quote=hunterseat]

Is this normal for a english horse to be used to having consistent pressure on the bit at all times?

I'm not a trainer but I try to take lessons every where I go. I've ridden at a place that required HEAVY pressure on the mouth which eventually made the horse flex, which is when you take the pressure off.

Once I get him giving to lateral flexion well; I start asking for vertical flexion, which is applying pressure to the bit, driving him forward, asking him to tuck his nose and break at the poll and get his hind end underneath him. But currently, he has a high head set, nose poked out and is used to feeling pressure applied to the bit "without" flexing his poll at all. So I must get him started with lateral flexion, plus putting a one rein stop on this horse will certainly help his stops, because it will disengage his hindquarters. If you pull back on two reins his head just goes in the air, mouth opens a little and nose pokes out. Like I said, he has quarter mile stops. Why would anyone train their horse to just accept heavy pressure on the bit without any release? Can you imagine how uncomfortable that is for the poor horse?

hunterseat

Posted : 6/11/2011 9:22:35 AM

What kind of bit is she using? Sounds like there may be some pain issues there. Wonder how a bitless would work out....

studeclunker

Posted : 6/12/2011 1:52:25 PM

I agree with Gramma. It's time to start over. I do mean from scratch too! Do you have a training Caveson? How about a surcingle? Start him from SCRATCH. Whatever training this fellow's had is worthless.

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 6/13/2011 1:58:02 AM

I have figured out afew more buttons on him over the last few days. First off, he will bow his head and break at the poll and actually collect pretty decent when you apply some leg pressure and drive him forward and put him on the bit. Very hard to actually do in a western saddle though so I need to brush up on my english a bit more, its been awhile! He is very used to running because when you touch him with your leg, his first responce is to take off. So he will need a little work. So instead of retraining him compleatly, I am just going to train him the one rein stop and tweek his cues back where they should be and call him alright for adoption. Funny thing is I am actually getting pretty attached to this horse. We are establishing a bond I didn't expect. He really is a good horse!

studeclunker

Posted : 6/13/2011 3:34:16 AM

Well... he has the likely advantage of being nearly free...

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 6/13/2011 4:22:12 PM

[quote=studeclunker]

Well... he has the likely advantage of being nearly free...

hummm... I get the feeling you are hinting at me that I should adopt him? Why didn't I think of that!? I am not sure if I am ready, it still fresh since Cozmo got put down, but I might talk to them about the idea a bit. I actually volenteered years ago at a humane society and everytime I turned around I was getting attached to a dog or cat and wanting to bring them home haha!

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 6/14/2011 4:54:13 AM

Ok so I spoke with the owners of the rescue place and when I told them I was getting attached to JoJo, they told me to take him. No adoption fee no contract no nothing! I am bringing him home Thursday! I can't wait! Never thought this would happen in a million years! Never rescued a horse before and quite frankly, its an amazing feeling! JoJo is offically mine! Can you tell I am excited??

samsara

Posted : 6/14/2011 10:26:32 PM

Awesome. Make sure you keep us updated on his progress.

CozmoandGunner

Posted : 6/15/2011 4:34:14 PM

[quote=samsara]

Awesome. Make sure you keep us updated on his progress.

I will do that. Ill take some pictures when he get settled and post them. =)