So...the horse I adopted from the kill pen turned out to be a flipper

Imp,    have you ever watched the Hybrid Horseman videos on u tube.
 
I will post a link to the video.   Not saying this would work and
some of the comments acuse the guy of cruelity,  but I don't see that.
Others really stick up for his method of laying a horse down.
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6NUnAoRNLc
 

[quote=hunterseat]

After reading jungle_cat's post, I thought about Tanya and wondered if she'd seen this thread, cuz I forgot.  I found her post that said "I guess you know now why he was in the kill pen".  Then I thought about the ladies I know on two different coasts of the country who work so hard to rescue from kill buyers.   They are spending 4 and 5 hundred on possible "killers" (not that it's their fault they're so dangerous) and you can get really nice horses for that much right now.  Many of which desperately need good homes.  Makes me wonder.  What if I worked to save a horse that ended up killing someone because he's a flipper.  "And he was so sweet and docile on the ground!  I don't understand it!"  Imp... I'm not directing ]
  I am one of them that works so hard to save horses from the kill buyers if it was bought buy the kill buyers or dumped off. It is important that it's history is with the horse.  If it's dangerous then our group would of come up with the funds to "humanley Euthenize" the horse.  It is important to know all the history on a horse to avoid someone getting hurt or killed.  I agree the horse should be put down.    Alot of good horses are bought by the KB'rs.  We try to be at every auction to talk with the owners and get as much info as posible. If that horse is bought by the KB'rs then we know it's history.  I AM GLAD THAT YOU ARE OKAY!

GoCandybar - Bless you for the work you do. AND for your 2cents!  We really needed to hear this from someone who is in the trenches.  When we say "we can't save them all" maybe the humane euthanasia is saving those that have been terrorized to this point.  Hugs and hopes for your successes.  May they be many!

Haven't you got rid of that horse yet!  Your not doing anyone a favor by waiting.

Okay, Rod.  Cool yer jets.  []  Think he could pull a wagon? [] He'd only try flipping one time in harness, wouldn't he?  Do they DO that in harness?

It's not that I don't believe what everyone is saying about having him euthanized, it's just that...........sigh.
Watched the utube video.  While, I don't believe the guy is being cruel, I somehow feel it's a way of breaking his spirit.  If I break his spirit, he becomes perhaps rideable, but also "worthless?".
Yes, Rod, but the only favor I'm not doing anyone is myself and I can handle that at the moment.  He's currently hanging out enjoying himself while I work on ground work, putting myself in the role of "herd" leader and thinking.  Call it a lesson for me more than him at the moment.  I was thinking hard about what Dana's trainer said and how to find the "hole" in his training and fix it or find the abcess within him, rid it of infection and heal the wound.  I can't believe that any horse starts out this way, but has it instilled in him somewhere along the line by a mistake made innocently or on purpose.
Except I did put a dummy rider on him and he did his bucking stint, then flipped and it's little dummy head fell off.  Not a good omen, for sure.
I did try to find another experienced mind(s) locally to try to give me another perspective and found no one willing to take on the challenge.  So, therefore, that's what you guys are doing whether you know it or not, you are all my horse training experts, giving me various voices and allowing me to bounce thoughts and ideas off of you.  And in turn letting me hear your thoughts and opinions has been a helpful and gratifying experience.

Yikes, glad it was the dummy's head and not yours!!
 
He is very beautiful and it is just rotten that someone ruined him but there are so many other good horses out there in need.  If he's OK on the ground and you could guarantee no one would ever ride him, it would be nice to find him a home as a companion but how could you guarantee he wouldn't kill someone someday........
 
I've had to put horses to sleep for physical reasons but never for mental ones so I can see you dilemma in putting to sleep a perfectly healthy horse.  I guess you have to put yourself and every other person who might ever ride him first.

Would you get mad if I told you I got a laugh out of the little dummy head thing?   Let me know and I'll tell you if I laughed or not.  []

Laying a horse down, as far as I know isn't going to break his spirit as much as align his spirit with his herd leader and bring him a new perspective.  Some people do it just for "fun" and I think that's okay, too.  I think it's a growing experience for the horse and the owner.  I don't think it should be like a circus act.  I'd hate a horse to be laid down when it's vulnerable to strangers or other horses or dogs.  But in a safe quiet setting I think it's a cool thing, personally. 

You should DEFINITELY read Buck Brannaman's book, Faraway Horses.  I was just looking at his site and he has clinics all year.  One in Huntsville in Oct!!!  Not too far... hmmmm....  I'd email lots of those trainers and ask advice just to see if you get a response.  But it was Buck's horse that Redford laid down in Horse Whisperer.  At first Redford didn't want it at all and expected a double to do it.  So one of the crew said "I'll do it" and Buck showed him how.  Then Redford decided to try it and ended up doing it himself in the scene.

You know,  it maybe that a person never caused any of this problem.
 
you said you don't know his breeding.   Could be someone was line breeding
trying to get the perfect horse and not knowing what they were doing,
created a horse with mental problems.   
 
and a side note,  to rear a horse needs it's head,   I wonder if a tie down
might help.
 
Imp  do you know for sure he was broke to ride?
I think you said the vet is doing a hormone test,  did the results come back yet?
 
 
 
just things that are going through my head.
edited to add:   you bought this horse at an auction?   Ask them for the
sellers name and/or phone number,   explain to them the problem
and you need to contact that person.

[quote=hunterseat]

Okay, Rod.  Cool yer jets.  []  Think he could pull a wagon? [] He'd only try flipping one time in harness, wouldn't he?  Do they DO that in harness?



Yes, they do flip in harness.  I once took care of  a mare that did it...just once.  She broke the jog cart and bruised herself up quite a bit, but she recovered and never tried it again.  She would not have flipped if the guy trying to drive her had put his "macho" in his back pocket and had let someone lead her off before hooking her overcheck.  I really grew to like this mare.

Ouch, Connie!

The gelding has been put down.  Tried ponying him with another horse.  He kept trying to strike and savage the other horse and me.  As Stephen King once said, "Done bun, can't be undone."  So be it.  Be happy, Renny.

My heart aches for you, Imp...  I'm so sorry.  I know it goes totally against everything that comes naturally to us.  You are a saver.  But you are brave and wise and he will be a good horse in God's hands. []   His torment is over. 

I'm so sorry.  That had to be a really heart-wrenching decision but it is for the best for you and him.  At least he didn't go to slaughter, die scared and alone.  Glad you came out w/ only bruises, sadness and nothing more serious.  Know that you did your very best and that's all that anyone can ask.  On to the next rescue!!  Had to put down a stray I rescued last year.  Sweetest dog ever, put so much money, hope, energy and time into her, only to end up having to put her to sleep as she was just too far gone...... but the doggie hotel is full up again with strays and it fills my heart up and does me good to be doing it again!  ((Hugs))

Sorry that you had to make a decision like that,
but I think it was the best.   For both of you.